the Bereans

http://jimmyakin.com/2012/09/sola-scriptura-the-bereans.html

from comment 153 here http://www.calledtocommunion.com/2012/06/podcast-ep-17-jason-cindy-stewart-recount-their-conversion/

Steve Ray in Dave Armstrong’s blog:

Steve Ray, in his excellent, classic article : “Why the Bereans Rejected Sola Scriptura” (This Rock, March 1997), wrote:

We are told that the Bereans were more noble-minded (open-minded, better disposed, fair)—but more noble-minded than whom? The Thessalonians! . . . The Thessalonians rejected Paul and his message, and, after denouncing him, they became jealous that others believed. They treated Paul with contempt and violence, throwing him ignominiously out of town. Why? “For three weeks he [Paul] reasoned with them from the Scriptures” [Acts 17:2] in the synagogue, as was his custom. They did not revile Paul the first week or the second; rather, they listened and discussed. But ultimately they rejected what he had to say. They compared Paul’s message to the Old Testament and decided that Paul was wrong. . . .

If one of the two groups could be tagged as believers in sola scriptura, who would it be, the Thessalonians or the Bereans? The Thessalonians, obviously. They, like the Bereans, examined the Scriptures with Paul in the synagogue, yet they rejected his teaching. They rejected the new teaching, deciding after three weeks of deliberation that Paul’s word contradicted the Torah. . . .

We can see, then, that if anyone could be classified as adherents to sola scriptura it was the Thessalonian Jews. They reasoned from the Scriptures alone and concluded that Paul’s new teaching was “unbiblical.”

The Bereans, on the other hand, were not adherents of sola scriptura, for they were willing to accept Paul’s new oral teaching as the word of God (as Paul claimed his oral teaching was; see 1 Thess. 2:13). The Bereans, before accepting the oral word of God from Paul, a tradition as even Paul himself refers to it (see 2 Thess. 2:15), examined the Scriptures to see if these things were so. They were noble-minded precisely because they “received the word with all eagerness.” Were the Bereans commended primarily for searching the Scriptures? No. Their open-minded willingness to listen was the primary reason they are referred to as noble-minded—not that they searched the Scriptures. . . .

Why did the Bereans search the Scriptures? Because they were the sole source of revelation and authority? No, but to see if Paul was in line with what they already knew—to confirm additional revelation. They would not submit blindly to his apostolic teaching and oral tradition, but, once they accepted the credibility of Paul’s teaching as the oral word of God, they put it on a par with Scripture and recognized its binding authority. After that, like the converts who believed in Thessalonica, they espoused apostolic Tradition and the Old Testament equally as God’s word (see 2 Thess. 2:15, 3:16). Therefore they accepted apostolic authority, which means that the determinations of Peter in the first Church council, reported in Acts 15, would have been binding on these new Gentile converts.

By contrast, the Jews of Thessalonica would have condemned Peter’s biblical exegesis at the Council of Jerusalem. They would have scoffed at the Church’s having authority over them—the Torah was all they needed.

Also, here is a good summary from Jimmy Akin regarding the Bereans:
http://jimmyakin.com/2012/09/sola-scriptura-the-bereans.html

dead in sins

from http://www.calledtocommunion.com/2009/10/a-reply-from-a-romery-person/http://www.calledtocommunion.com/2009/10/a-reply-from-a-romery-person/

The Catholic understanding is that to be “dead in sins” is to be without the life of God, i.e without sanctifying grace. That is what it means to be unregenerate. Since the fall of Adam, all human beings are born into the world without the life of God, i.e. without sanctifying grace and without agape. We call this privation of the life of God, “original sin.” Without sanctifying grace we still have a functioning intellect and a will. But we cannot love God with supernatural love (i.e. agape) because agape is present in us only if we have sanctifying grace, i.e. a participation in the divine life. So, without sanctifying grace we can know God as Creator simply by the things He has made, and we can have natural virtues. But we cannot know God as Father, and have faith, hope, andagape. Without agape, we cannot have friendship with God as Father. So without sanctifying grace, we cannot enter into heaven. According to Catholic doctrine, the unregenerate man cannot do things ordered to a supernatural end (i.e. heaven) because he is not a participant in the divine nature. Since he only has human nature, which is natural, he can only achieve a natural end. But heaven is a supernatural end. Hence, without sanctifying grace he cannot attain to a supernatural end.

According to the Catholic position, for those in the unregenerate condition, God must act first without us, in giving us grace, before we can freely move toward Him. (Otherwise we’d be semi-Pelagian, if we believed that we, without His grace, acted first toward Him as our supernatural end.) But our privation of the life of God does not require that we must be “regenerated” before we freely move toward Him. Catholic doctrine makes a distinction here between two forms of grace. One form, called ‘actual grace,’ is the grace by which God moves our hearts and minds. The other form, called ‘sanctifying grace,’ is that participation in the divine nature by which we are sanctified in our very soul and made sons of God. In Catholic theology regeneration means receiving sanctifying grace. A person who is moved by actual grace, but has not yet received sanctifying grace, is not yet regenerated. And in Catholic theology sanctifying grace comes through the sacrament of baptism, though it can (while still coming through the sacrament of baptism) precede the reception of that sacrament. But, in Catholic theology actual grace comes to us before regeneration, and actual grace first acts as operative grace (in which God moves us without us), and then by our participation actual grace acts as cooperative grace (God moving us with us), leading us to faith and baptism by which we receive sanctifying grace, and are thereby justified.

Lutheran and Reformed theology generally do not make the distinction between actual grace and sanctifying grace. They tend to maintain that a person cannot do anything until he is alive. And therefore regeneration is required in order for a person to cooperate. Hence, what Catholic theology refers to as ‘actual grace’ drops out of Reformed and Lutheran theology as something that precedes regeneration. Since Catholic theology understands ‘dead in sins’ as meaning the absence of divine life, but not the loss of intellect and will, therefore, Catholic theology does not need to maintain that regeneration must precede cooperation, because a person without sanctifying grace (i.e. without the life of God) may still by his intellect and will cooperate with actual grace.

JDK then quotes Canon 5:

Canon 5: “If anyone says that after the sin of Adam man’s free will was lost and destroyed. . . let him be anathema.”

This canon has to do with what happened to man at the Fall. In Lutheran theology man’s very nature was damaged, and his intellect and will were radically corrupted. In Catholic theology, at the Fall man lost sanctifying grace, lost agape, lost the four preternatural gifts, and suffered the four wounds of nature. Among those wounds of nature were ignorance in the intellect, and malice in the will. Each of man’s powers was wounded, though not destroyed, but man’s nature was not destroyed. We were human before the Fall, and we remain human after the Fall. (I have discussed this in more detail here.) But this canon need not separate Catholics and Protestants. Both Protestants and Catholics can agree that man after the Fall is incapable of turning to God, unless God first acts in us without us. We all agree that semi-Pelagianism is a heresy, so the objection to semi-Pelagianism need not be a point of contention between us

Interview on medieval catholic church/ explanations/crusades/inquisition/3popes at same time

http://www.calledtocommunion.com/2014/04/an-interview-with-dr-thomas-madden-on-the-medieval-catholic-church/

at the end of the interview he recommends some books on the subject

concerning the fourth crusade: comment 9 here http://www.calledtocommunion.com/2014/04/an-interview-with-dr-thomas-madden-on-the-medieval-catholic-church/

distinction between the part of the Venetian leaders of the Fourth Crusade, and the communications from the Pope seem to be an attempt to make the sack of Constantinople into rogue activity separate from the intent of the Catholic Church. I would suggest that even if it was an unintended consequence, that still does not give the Pope a free pass, especially when churches in Western Europe were enriched by holy relics plundered from the churches of Constantinople.

You seem to be claiming that the pope was responsible for individual excommunicated Catholics who plundered Constantinople and brought relics back into Western Europe. He excommunicated the army of the 4th crusade, and he warned them repeatedly not to attack fellow Christians, to include the Byzantines. I think it unfair to make him responsible for the actions of people who were disobeying his express wishes.

If the siege and capture of Constantinople was led by rogue lay military, they were aided and abetted by the Roman Catholic clergy who preached on the righteousness of the cause of the besieging Crusaders in sermons on the eve of the final assault. Standards of bishops were flying in the forefront of the assault, and priests in full armor were active in the front of the fray. (Papal Supremacy and the Parting of the Ways I, podcast dated Apr 17, 2014 by Fr. John Strickland,http://www.ancientfaith.com)

It is true that there were Catholic bishops and priests who encouraged the excommunicated crusaders to attack Constantinople. Yet these religious were not acting with permission or encouragement from the pope. The bishops even told the excommunicated crusaders, falsely, that they had absolved them of the excommunication. Yet they did not have the power to do this, and were acting without proper papal authority. I, and the Catholic Church, are certainly am sorrowed that this event occurred in the way that it did, and are remorseful for the actions of both rogue crusaders and rogue clergy. It is a terribly dark spot on the history of East-West Christian relations.

A close listen to the portion of the podcast that I cited may suggest that some comments by Dr. Madden referred to one certain crusade, but the general drift of his talk concerns the several crusades together, so I do not think that the sack of Constantinople is “quite a separate issue”. I do not know what treatment he gives this incident in his written works. But in a talk like this, the best tactic is to bring out your weak points, giving them the best possible explanation, denying opponents the opportunity to frame the debate. In this short talk, the sack of Constantinople got ignored.

I agree that ideally a discussion of Constantinople would have strengthened this interview, so feel free to blame me for not including that question in the interview. Rest assured Dr. Madden addresses the 4th Crusade both in his audio lecture series and his New Concise History of the Crusades, so the blame here should not be placed on Dr. Madden – he simply responded to a very specific Protestant objection regarding the Crusades, and was not asked to comment on all the complexities and controversies surrounding them. Plenty of other issues regarding the Crusades also “got ignored” in the sense that he did not exhaustively address every major objection against the Crusades. This would have been a bit outside the scope of a brief 30 minute podcast interview.

see also http://socrates58.blogspot.com/2014/04/reformed-apologist-and-expert-on-islam.html

Timewatch - The Myth of the Spanish Inquisition (BBC 1994):

 Another article which goes into some depth and cites the above video can be found here explains:" Myth can be destroyed only by fact, and the fact is that between 3000 and 5000 were killed in the 350 years of the Inquisition, whereas in the same period in Protestant countries, 150,000 witches alone were burned for heresy. As Professor Stephen Haliczer of Northern University of Illinois verifies, the Inquisitors never used method of torture that were common in Protestant countries - disemboweling and gouging out of eyes for example."

Jews and Catholics

Answering a question about Pope Francis and Jews: comment 221 http://www.calledtocommunion.com/2013/03/habemus-papam/

Sts. Paul and Barnabas spoke this way only to Jews who culpably rejected Christ, in this case for reasons of jealousy. We have no good reason to believe that the Jews with whom Pope Francis has spoken have definitively rejected Christ, let alone done so culpably. Their very willingness to talk with Pope Francis in an open and authentic manner suggests that they remain open to understanding more about Christ and His Church, and are thus not at all in the same epistemic condition as were the Jews described in Acts 13. Pope Francis’s dialogue with them is a reflection of the Church’s recognition of kinship with and affection for the Jewish people as the root from whom we come (see Nostra Aetate, 4), and continued prayer and hope for their recognition and acceptance of Christ as the promised Messiah.

Early Church on who is a Christian?

from comment 20 here http://www.calledtocommunion.com/2010/03/doug-wilsons-authority-and-apostolic-succession/#comment-7236

Briefly, when the Pope declares that XYZ must be believed, I take this to be an ecclesial law. The tone of such ecclesial laws, however, does not merely seem to be “XYZ must be believed to be a Catholic,” but the stronger claim that “XYZ must be believed in order to be a Christian.” This I find confusing since I take the latter claim to be outside the Pope’s sphere of authority.

Consider some statements by the Church Fathers. Lactantius (240-320) wrote:

[I]t is the Catholic Church alone which retains true worship. This is the fountain of truth, this is the abode of the faith, this is the temple of God; into which if any one shall not enter, or from which if any shall go out, he is estranged from the hope of life and eternal salvation. No one ought to flatter himself with persevering strife. For the contest is respecting life and salvation, which, unless it is carefully and diligently kept in view, will be lost and extinguished. But, however, because all the separate assemblies of heretics call themselves Christians in preference to others, and think that theirs is the Catholic Church, it must be known that the true Catholic Church is that in which there is confession and repentance, which treats in a wholesome manner the sins and wounds to which the weakness of the flesh is liable. (The Divine Institutes, IV.30,) [my emphasis]

St. Augustine writes:

We believe also in the Holy Church, [intending thereby] assuredly the Catholic. For both heretics and schismatics style their congregations churches. (On Faith and the Creed, 10)

One cannot have [salvation] except in the Catholic Church. Outside of the Catholic Church one can have everything except salvation. One can have honor, one can have the sacraments, one can sing the alleluia, one can answer Amen, one can have the Gospel, one can have faith in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit and preach, but never can one find salvation except in the Catholic Church. (Sermon to the People of the Church of Caesarea, 6)

St. Cyril of Jerusalem writes:

And if ever you are sojourning in cities, inquire not simply where the Lord’s House is (for the other sects of the profane also attempt to call their own dens houses of the Lord), nor merely where the Church is, but where is the Catholic Church. For this is the peculiar name of this Holy Church, the mother of us all. (Catechesis 17:14)

As I studied the Church Fathers, it became clear to me that any heretic could call himself a Christian, as the quotation from Lactantius shows. What mattered most, therefore, was not calling oneself a Christian, but being a Catholic, i.e. in the Church or in the process of being received by the Church. Among Catholics, the term ‘Christian’ was used to refer to baptized Catholics, and to Catechumens (i.e. unbaptized persons seeking entry into the Church). St. Augustine says, “Ask a man: are you a Christian? If he be a pagan or a Jew, he will reply: I am not a Christian. But if he say: I am a Christian, ask him again: are you a catechumen, or one of the faithful?” (Tract. in Joannem, xliv, 2) So, if one speaks of being “a Christian” in the way that the heretics call themselves being a Christian, then nothing “must be believed in order to be a Christian,” because the individual himself can use the term in any way he wishes. (E.g. a ‘Christian’ is anyone who has “prayed a sinner’s prayer”, or ‘asked Jesus into his heart’, or ‘trusted Christ’ or ‘tries to follow the teachings of Christ,’ or whatever he wants it to be). In that sense of the word ‘Christian,’ there are no requirements for calling oneself a Christian, apart from the limitations due to the ordinary use of the term, such that it would be a contradiction to say that one is a Christian, and say that one hates Christ.

But, there is another sense of the word ‘Christian.’ Christ entrusted the Apostles with the gospel, and authorized them to speak as His representatives to the world, with the authority to define what is orthodox and what is heterodox. He authorized them to set the conditions for what it means to follow Christ, and in that sense, to determine authoritatively what must be believed in order truly to be a follower of Christ, and (in that sense) a ‘Christian.’ The successors of the Apostles retain that authority. And Peter in particular, as the one to whom Christ gave the keys, has a special role here. So when the successor of Peter (or the bishops in union with the Pope, including the Pope) define something as necessary to be believed by all the faithful, they do so with the authority of the apostles. The sphere of that authority extends over the whole earth, because Christ’s authority extends over the whole authority. All those who seek to follow Christ should submit to the successors of the Apostles, and to what those successors teach concerning Christ and what to believe about Christ. In any diocese, the local Catholic bishop is the rightful authority to which all those who seek to follow Christ should be subject. But no one who is not a Catholic is subject to canon law, because canon law governs the supernatural society that is the Church. Those who are not members of that society are not under the authority of canon law, because they have not yet come under the authority of the Church. This is why Protestants are not under canon law. So, in sum, the doctrinal definitions determined by the Church are authoritative for all those who seek to follow Christ, but only Catholics are subject to canon law.

Does God have to punish all sin for God to be Just

Here is one view on this found in comment 381 here http://www.calledtocommunion.com/2010/04/catholic-and-reformed-conceptions-of-the-atonement/ :

So, to summarize, the reasoning goes:
(1) If God is perfectly Holy and just, then He cannot “clear the guilty” without the debt due to justice being satisfied.
(2) Catholics hold that God could have “cleared the guilty” (by forgiving their sin) without the debt due to justice being satisfied (e.g. through penal substitution or substitutionary gift).
(3) So, the Catholic view posits a God that is not perfectly Holy and just.

Does that reasoning misrepresent the Catholic position?

Well, yes. The Catholic rejects (1) and (3). But the argument begs the question, because (1) presupposes precisely what is in question.

But, it seems that something is necessary to satisfy for sin,

You would need more than a “seems” to demonstrate the truth of that assertion.

I mentioned this in #220 above. The notion that God is unable to forgive sin without punishing it or without receiving satisfaction, treats God as subordinate to [impersonal] Justice, and thus reduces God to something less than God (because nothing is greater than God). But sin is not against something higher than God (i.e. Justice), such that God must punish or receive payment in order to cancel the debt. Sin is against God Himself. Because sin is against God Himself, and because God is free, God can freely choose to forgive that sin, period. Just as you can forgive a debt owed to you, without violating justice, so God, without punishment or payment, can forgive the debt of sin without violating justice, because sin is against Him, not against something higher than Himself to which He is subordinate.

end of quote

Romans 3 speaks about this:  21But now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction; 23for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus; 25whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in His blood through faith. This wasto demonstrate His righteousness, because in the forbearance of God He passed over the sins previously committed;26for the demonstration, I say, of His righteousness at the present time, so that He would be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

      27Where then is boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? Of works? No, but by a law of faith. 28For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law. 29Or is God the God of Jews only? Is He not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, 30since indeed God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith is one.

also  Romans 4: 1What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh, has found? 2For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3For what does the Scripture say? “ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS CREDITED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS. {and}....... 20yet, with respect to the promise of God, he did not waver in unbelief but grew strong in faith, giving glory to God, 21and being fully assured that what God had promised, He was able also to perform. 22Therefore IT WAS ALSO CREDITED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS. 23Now not for his sake only was it written that it was credited to him, 24but for our sake also, to whom it will be credited, as those who believe in Him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead, 25He who was delivered over because of our transgressions, and was raised because of our justification.

Romans 5   18So then as through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men, even so through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to all men. 19For as through the one man’s disobedience the many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the One the many will be made righteous.

Why does Christ's blood atone?

from comment127 here http://www.calledtocommunion.com/2010/04/catholic-and-reformed-conceptions-of-the-atonement/

"... why does Christ’s blood atone. The blood represents the very life. To give one’s possessions (e.g. house, property, clothes, money) is to give something external to oneself. But to pour out one’s blood unto death, is to give one’s very self. Hence Jesus says, “Greater love has no man than this, that he lay down his life for his friends.” (Jn. 15:13) This is why His blood is so precious, and St. Peter explains that we “were not redeemed with perishable things like silver or gold from your futile way of life inherited from your forefathers, but with precious blood, as of a lamb unblemished and spotless, the blood of Christ.” (1 Pet. 1:18-19) Christ redeemed us by giving the greatest gift of love, namely, His very life, letting it be poured out for our salvation. By His blood, He offered Himself without blemish to God (Heb 9:14), and by means of this sacrifice made peace with God for us (Col 1:20) and purchased the Church (Acts 20:28; Rev. 5:9). Christ’s blood sanctifies us (and the NT frequently alludes to the OT practice of cleansing things by the sprinkling of blood) because through this perfect offering to God, Christ won for us the sanctifying grace and agape by which we are sanctified."

from comment 423

Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us

St. Thomas says, “Christ freed us from punishment by enduring our punishment and our death which came upon us from the very curse of sin. Therefore, inasmuch as He endured this curse of sin by dying for us, He is said to have been made a curse for us.” And additionally, “But with respect to the evil of punishment, Cursed is everyone that hangeth on a tree is explained thus: The punishment itself is a curse, namely, that He should die in this way. Explained in this way, He was truly cursed by God, because God decreed that He endure this punishment in order to set us free.”

what does it mean that Christ died? how can God die?

from comment 36  here http://www.calledtocommunion.com/2009/04/aquinas-and-trent-part-6/

In a post titled “Did God Die on the Cross?” and dated “March 25, 2013,” Ligonier posted the following by R.C. Sproul:

Some say, “It was the second person of the Trinity Who died.” That would be a mutation within the very being of God, because when we look at the Trinity we say that the three are one in essence, and that though there are personal distinctions among the persons of the Godhead, those distinctions are not essential in the sense that they are differences in being. Death is something that would involve a change in one’s being.

We should shrink in horror from the idea that God actually died on the cross. The atonement was made by the human nature of Christ. Somehow people tend to think that this lessens the dignity or the value of the substitutionary act, as if we were somehow implicitly denying the deity of Christ. God forbid. It’s the God-man Who dies, but death is something that is experienced only by the human nature, because the divine nature isn’t capable of experiencing death.

Sproul is here rightly concerned to protect the doctrine of the immutability of the divine nature. But he thinks that in order to protect this doctrine, it cannot be the case that the Second Person of the Trinity died on the cross. Therefore Sproul claims that the atonement “was made by the human nature of Christ.” This would entail either (a) that no Person suffered, died, and made atonement for our sins, but only some impersonal, created thing did all that for us, or (b) that a non-divine person suffered, died, and made atonement for us. The latter position is a form of the heresy of Nestorianism, condemned at the Third Ecumenical Council at Ephesus in AD 431. The former position would nullify the efficacy of the atonement for our sins for the same reason that the blood of bulls and goats cannot take away sins (Heb. 10:4); the sacrifice of Christ by which He made satisfaction for our sins is of such great value and worth precisely because the Lamb who was slain for our sins is God, not a mere creature.

Sproul adds that “It’s the God-man Who dies.” But this just raises the following dilemma. Either the “God-man” is the same Person as the Second Person of the Trinity, or the “God-man” is not the same Person as “Second Person of the Trinity.” If the former horn of the dilemma, then if the “God-man” died, then the “Second Person of the Trinity” died, and Sproul is here contradicting what he said in the first excerpted paragraph. But if the latter horn of the dilemma, then [either (a) or (b)], or (c) the First or Third Person of the Trinity suffered, died, and made atonement for us. The consequence of both horns of that dilemma are deeply problematic, for obvious reasons.

By contrast, the Catholic Church teaches that it was not a nature that suffered, died and made atonement, but the Second Person of the Trinity who suffered, died, and made atonement for us in His human nature. We say in the Nicene Creed:

For us men and for our salvation
he came down from heaven,
and by the Holy Spirit was incarnate of the Virgin Mary,
and became man.
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate,
he suffered death and was buried,

The same Person who “came down from heaven” and “was incarnate of the Virgin Mary” is the same Person who “was crucified under Pontius Pilate” and “suffered death and was buried.” That Person is the Second Person of the Trinity, not an impersonal nature or created thing. When we say that Christ suffered death, we do not mean that there was a change in the divine nature, but that He endured the separation of His soul from His body. Canon 12 of the Council of Ephesus (which condemned Nestorianism) reads: “If anyone does not confess that the Word of God suffered in the flesh, and tasted death in the flesh, and was made the firstborn from the dead [Col. 1:18] according to which as God He is both the life and the life-giver, let him be anathema.”

So what lies behind the reason for Sproul’s claims that the Second Person of the Trinity did not die, and that a mere human nature suffered, died, and made atonement for us? It seems to me that denying that the Second Person of the Trinity suffered and died for us on the cross is the result of multiple factors. One factor, I think, is Protestantism’s denial (or general unwillingness to affirm) that Mary is the Theotokos (Mother of God). If she gave birth only to a human nature, then only a human nature suffered and died on the cross. But if she gave birth to the Second Person of the Trinity, then the Second Person of the Trinity suffered, died, and made atonement for us. Another factor is Protestant adherence to sola scriptura, according to which councils, including the Council of Ephesus, have no authority, and are ultimately unnecessary: “the whole counsel of God concerning all things necessary for His own glory, man’s salvation, faith and life, is either expressly set down in Scripture, or by good and necessary consequence may be deduced from Scripture.” (Westminster Confession of Faith I.6)

[later in comment 48

It is possible, as you say, that Sproul meant to say that in His divine nature the Second Person of the Trinity cannot die. It is possible that he meant to say that Christ made atonement for us in His human nature. But that’s not what he actually said, and philosopher-theologians with his training have the necessary skill (and responsibility) to say what they mean and not say what they don’t mean. My criticism is not of his motives, or even of his [personal] Christology, but of what he actually said in this document he published in 2007, posted online in 2012, and reposted again in 2013 after it was criticized widely in 2012. If he has expressed Chalcedonian Christology elsewhere, then I’m very glad for that. But that doesn’t make true what he says here, even if the error is due to sloppiness; nor does it justify posting and reposting an excerpt that is Christologically heterodox. (See James 3:1)

from an article here Nick's Catholic blog Wed April 2, 2014:

Trent confirms this in the Lesson on Article IV of the Apostles Creed (where the Creed says Christ was "crucified, died, and buried"): 

The pastor should explain that these words present for our belief that Jesus Christ, after He was crucified, really died and was buried. It is not without just reason that this is proposed to the faithful as a separate object of belief, since there were some who denied His death upon the cross. The Apostles, therefore, were justly of opinion that to such an error should be opposed the doctrine of faith contained in this Article, the truth of which is placed beyond the possibility of doubt by the united testimony of all the Evangelists, who record that Jesus yielded up the ghost. . . .When, therefore, we say that Jesus died, we mean that His soul was disunited from His body.

Notice that spiritual death, which is more important in the Protestant scheme, is strikingly absent! Again, it is plain that when the Church speaks of Christ suffering death, the only thing meant is a physical death, not a spiritual death. [4] By this fact alone, the Church dogma doesn't allow Penal Substitution, since He didn't suffer the right type of punishment the Protestant view requires (i.e. spiritual death by the breaking of communion with the Father). [5] But there's more!

Second of all, it's theologically impossible for Christ to undergo spiritual death. BasicChristology, which was confirmed in the Ecumenical Councils, is reiterated plainly throughout Catholic tradition, and particularly clear many places in the Catechism, withparagraph 650 being the most helpful: 

The Fathers contemplate the Resurrection from the perspective of the divine person of Christ who remained united to his soul and body, even when these were separated from each other by death: [Gregory of Nyssa says] "By the unity of the divine nature, which remains present in each of the two components of man, these are reunited. For as death is produced by the separation of the human components, so Resurrection is achieved by the union of the two."

 Again, this is basic Christology, and Catholics have always been careful to not violate Christology in any sense. [6] Unfortunately, Protestants often eschew advanced theology and philosophy, so they run right into Christological heresy when they insist that Jesus underwent a spiritual death. This weak theological foundation is why you have big name Reformed Protestants saying Jesus was cut-off from the Father, that the Father broke fellowship with the Son, that the Son was "damned," etc. But this is plainly impossible once you realize Jesus is a Divine Person with a Divine Nature and human nature permanently united. How could Jesus spiritually die (the soul losing the indwelling of the Holy Trinity) when the union was so permanent that His Divinity remained united to his body and soul even after the two separated? And even more problematic is that "spiritual death" means it was the Divine Person of Son who would be cut-off from the Divine Person of Father, not merely the Son being cut off from human nature. In other words, it's heresy (Nestorianism) to suggest the Divine Son (a Person) could only suffer broken communion in His humanity, since it is Persons who form communion with other Persons, not natures (alone) in communion with natures. So "cutting off" the Son would, by definition, destroy the Trinity, since it severs Christ'svery Sonship. 

Even though Protestants are insistent that the Trinity was not destroyed, they lack the theological foundation to realize that is in fact what Penal Substitution amounts to. And since the Catholic Church affirms basic Christology, clearly affirmed in the above quotes regarding Christ's death (the very thing under consideration now), this makes itimpossible for any Catholic to affirm Penal Substitution

(4) How is physical suffering and death for a mere few hours sufficient to atone for an infinite offense against God? Catholic theology has a good explanation for this, and it's been consistently taught by all the great minds of the Church, especially by Aquinas (ST 3:48:2.3): "The dignity of Christ's flesh is not to be estimated solely from the nature of flesh, but also from the Person assuming it--namely, inasmuch as it was God's flesh, the result of which was that it was of infinite worth." And in Ott's Fundamentals we read:

The intrinsic reason of the adequacy of Christ's atonement lies in the Hypostatic Union. Christ's actions possess an intrinsic infinite value, because the [person doing the action acting] is the Divine Person of the Logos. Thus Christ's atonement was, through its intrinsic value, sufficient to counterbalance the infinite insult offered to God.

....................................................... . As Ott explains: 

The act of sacrifice consisted in the fact that Christ, in a disposition of the most perfect self-surrender, voluntarily gave up His life to God by permitting His enemies to kill Him, although He had the power of preventing it.
(Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma, Bk3:Pt2:Ch2:Sec8)

And St Thomas confirms: 

"Christ's Passion was indeed a malefice on His slayers' part; but on His own it was the sacrifice of one suffering out of charity. Hence it is Christ who is said to have offered this sacrifice, and not the executioners" (ST 3:48:3.3)

 So Christ, acting as High Priest, offered up his life by refusing to hate his enemies in the midst of persecution. [7] This is precisely what St Peter meant when he interpreted Isaiah 53 for us in his First Epistle (I wrote about this HERE). I don't really see how Protestants can affirm Christ as High Priest because in the Penal Substitution view it is God inflicting the "punishment" on the sacrifice, which effectively strips the High Priesthood from Jesus and gives it to the one Person who cannot be High Priest, God the Father (Who is on the receiving end of the Sacrifice)! (I wrote about this inANOTHER ARTICLE). So, yet another reason why the Catholic understanding of Atonement isn't compatible with Penal Substitution. 

(6) Why do Catholic documents state that Jesus endured the worst sufferings humanly possible, particularly in His soul, if not to indicate He suffered the (equivalent) pains of hellfire itself? This is a good question and requires some explanation, as well as sufficiently understanding all of what has been said up to this point in the article. 

The Catechism of Trent explains in Article IV of the Creed (quoted freely): 

It cannot be a matter of doubt that His soul as to its inferior part was sensible of these torments; for as He really assumed human nature it is a necessary consequence that He really, and in His soul, experienced a most acute sense of pain. Hence these words of the Savior: My soul is sorrowful even unto death. ... Although human nature was united to the Divine Person, He felt the bitterness of His Passion as acutely as if no such union had existed. 

That Christ our Lord suffered the most excruciating torments of mind and body is certain. In the first place, there was no part of His body that did not experience the most agonizing torture. His hands and feet were fastened with nails to the cross; His head was pierced with thorns and smitten with a reed; His face was befouled with spittle and buffeted with blows; His whole body was covered with stripes.

His agony was increased by the very constitution and frame of His body. Formed by the power of the Holy Ghost, it was more perfect and better organized than the bodies of other men can be, and was therefore endowed with a superior susceptibility and a keener sense of all the torments which it endured. . . . Christ our Lord tempered with no admixture of sweetness the bitter chalice of His Passion butpermitted His human nature to feel as acutely every species of torment as if He were only man, and not also God.

It is important to distinguish between Christ suffering divine spiritual torments (i.e. the Father's wrath, spiritual death) versus suffering human emotional torments. This is why the Catechism speaks of Christ suffering in the "inferior part" of His soul, meaning the emotions and mental anguish. Aquinas elaborates on what this mental anguish consisted of in ST 3:46:5,

For Christ suffered from friends abandoning Him; in His reputation, from the blasphemies hurled at Him; in His honor and glory, from the mockeries and the insults heaped upon Him; in things, for He wasdespoiled of His garments; in His soul, from sadness, weariness, and fear; in His body, from wounds and scourgings.

Note that none of this suffering of Christ's soul is said to be of the divine type, God's anger, etc, as Protestants teach. In that link, Aquinas specifically rules out the idea Jesus suffered every type of suffering, because Jesus didn't endure every type of suffering, most especially not being cut-off from the Father. And that's the key. Even though Jesus was made capable of suffering worse than anyone ever suffered, this wasn't due to suffering certain types of pains. And thus there's no actual basis to say that Jesus suffered the equivalent of hellfire or anything similar, because intensity of suffering isn't the same as type of suffering. Christ's sufferings of body and soul were of the 'temporal' ('physical') type only.

Such distinctions show that in Catholic teaching, Jesus did not (and earlier it was shown He could not) suffer the pains of being spiritually cut-off from the Father, as Penal Substitution requires, despite affirming that Jesus did in fact endure the worst suffering a person has ever suffered, including in His soul. 

(7) A Reformed Protestant presented a few quotes (which I'll share below) from John Paul II commenting on Jesus' words "My God, why have you forsaken me" that seem to be compatible with the  Protestants understanding of those words. What did John Paul II mean in those quotes? 

First off, I've covered this verse numerous times, so please just search my blog if you want to know more. Briefly, the Reformed interpretation is that Jesus was spiritually cut-off from the Father when He uttered these words, as the Father's wrath poured down upon Him while on the Cross. The Reformed insist that if you fail to affirm their interpretation of Jesus' words, then you've missed the very heart of Jesus' suffering on the Cross. But Catholic tradition is clear how these words are to be understood, with St Thomas Aquinas in his survey of ancient Christian commentary giving us the understood meaning: "God is said to have forsaken Him in death because He exposed Him to the power of His persecutors; He withdrew His protection, but did not break the union." [8] No Catholic document I've ever seen permits reading Christ's words as signifying Jesus enduring spiritual cutting-off, broken fellowship, the Father's wrath, etc. In fact, such talk is the furthest thing from the orthodox Catholic mind, as I've shown throughout this article thus far.

Now the two quotes from Blessed John Paul II are as follows, which I'll comment upon as I present them:

More than an experience of physical pain, his Passion is an agonizing suffering of the soul. Theological tradition has not failed to ask how Jesus could possibly experience at one and the same time his profound unity with the Father, by its very nature a source of joy and happiness, and an agony that goes all the way to his final cry of abandonment. The simultaneous presence of these two seemingly irreconcilable aspects is rooted in the fathomless depths of the hypostatic union.
(Apostolic Letter: Beginning the New Millennium, paragraph 26)

From this quote, the Protestant made the claim that John Paul is saying here that Jesus could, in some mysterious manner, experience both perfect communion with the Father while simultaneously experience cutting-off from the Father. It would seem two polar-opposite ideas are being affirmed, and thus the Reformed are free to say Jesus was simultaneously suffering eternal damnation while at the same time enjoying perfect Heavenly bliss. 

With all that I've said thus far, it shouldn't be hard to see the fallacy and error in this Protestant's claim. First of all, this Protestant is assuming John Paul is actually talking about Jesus being spiritually cut-off from the Father. But that's not correct (which I'll further demonstrate in a bit). Second of all, John Paul is clear that the great theological minds have asked and addressed this question, meaning it is not an open question that Catholics can just believe as they please on. The great theological minds have demonstrated what is true and what is false on many facets of the Mystery of Salvation. As I've already shown, there's no basis whatsoever to think the great Catholic minds ever saw Jesus suffering God's wrath as an option. Thirdly, it's absurd to think that John Paul (or any great Catholic theologian) was asserting a blatant contradiction, as if Jesus could be simultaneously in communion and not-in-communion with the Father. That's ridiculous. 

Now for John Paul's explanation in his very next paragraph:

Faced with this mystery, we are greatly helped not only by theological investigation but also by that great heritage which is the "lived theology" of the saints. The saints offer us precious insights which enable us to understand more easily the intuition of faith, thanks to the special enlightenment which some of them have received from the Holy Spirit... Not infrequently the saints have undergone something akin to Jesus' experience on the Cross in the paradoxical blending of bliss and pain. In the Dialogue of Divine Providence, God the Father shows Catherine of Siena how joy and suffering can be present together in holy souls: "Thus the soul is blissful and afflicted: afflicted on account of the sins of its neighbor, blissful on account of the union and the affection of charity which it has inwardly received. These souls imitate the spotless Lamb, my Only-begotten Son, who on the Cross was both blissful and afflicted".13 In the same way, Thérèse of Lisieux lived her agony in communion with the agony of Jesus, "experiencing" in herself the very paradox of Jesus's own bliss and anguish: "In the Garden of Olives our Lord was blessed with all the joys of the Trinity, yet his dying was no less harsh. It is a mystery, but I assure you that, on the basis of what I myself am feeling, I can understand something of it".14 What an illuminating testimony!

So what John Paul was talking about is simply this: How can a person who is so closely in communion with God also suffer 'negative' feelings like sadness, affliction, loneliness, etc? Well, since it's not a contradictory proposal, it's not impossible. But it certainly is mysterious, because you'd think that being in such intimate communion with God would include a certain comfort and safety that precludes feelings of sadness and such. Clearly, John Paul was not suggesting Jesus was enduring spiritual torments by God's angry wrath upon Him! Instead, Jesus' 'cry of final abandonment' is to be understood more along the lines of (but infinitely more acute than) the sadness that we all feel when in the midst of major suffering we ask ourselves "Why is God letting this happen to me?"

The second quote this Protestant provided was from John Paul's General Audience lecture from November 30, 1998, where the topic of that day was Christ's words of abandonment.

Here one can sketch a summary of Jesus’ psychological situation in relationship to God. The external events seemed to manifest the absence of the Father who permitted the crucifixion of his Son, though having at his disposal “legions of angels” (cf. Mt 26:53), without intervening to prevent his condemnation to death and execution. In Gethsemane Simon Peter had drawn a sword in Jesus’ defense, but was immediately blocked by Jesus himself (cf. Jn 18:10 f.). In the praetorium Pilate had repeatedly tried wily maneuvers to save him (cf. Jn 18:31, 38 f.; 19:4-6, 12-15); but the Father was silent. That silence of God weighed on the dying Jesus as the heaviest pain of all, so much so that his enemies interpreted that silence as a sign of his reprobation: He trusted in God; let God deliver him now, if he desires him; for he said, ‘I am the Son of God’ (Mt 27:43).

In the sphere of feelings and affection this sense of the absence and abandonment by God was the most acute pain for the soul of Jesus who drew his strength and joy from union with the Father. This pain rendered all the other sufferings more intense. That lack of interior consolation was Jesus’ greatest agony.

However, Jesus knew that by this ultimate phase of his sacrifice, reaching the intimate core of his being, he completed the work of reparation which was the purpose of his sacrifice for the expiation of sins. If sin is separation from God, Jesus had to experience in the crisis of his union with the Father a suffering proportionate to that separation.

Everything seems to be perfectly easy to understand and right in accord with the traditional Catholic interpretation of that verse. But then John Paul seems to throw a curve ball at the last sentence. This Protestant claims that in this last sentence, John Paul is indeed saying that Jesus did in fact suffer the equivalent pains of a lost soul in hellfire suffers. My response simply is that this is reading too much into the text. The context gives no reason to think this abandonment is that of a cut-off soul, and in fact the context already shows the type of abandonment. Jesus did experience the worst sufferings imaginable, and if the Father permitted all this to happen, then yes it's a profound mystery a loving God would allow that to happen to anyone, particularly His Son. And the fact that Jesus was still alive when He said "Father, into your hands I commend my Spirit" is in no way compatible with the idea that the Father was spiritually cut-off from Jesus.

In the end, these quotes this Protestant provided are simply pure desperation, scraping for whatever scraps Protestants can get their hands on to salvage a horribly blasphemous and unbiblical teaching. 

end of quote---- and then from some notes on the article:

 But Catholic tradition has always been clear that Jesus didn't endure hellfire, and rather this clause is talking about Jesus "descending into Hades" to rescue the Old Testament Saints on Holy Saturday, which is also why the Creed puts this clause after mentioning Christ's death and burial (signifying it's not part of His suffering). The Catechism of Trent speaks directly on this clause, explicitly saying that this was not the hell of the damned where Jesus went, but rather that "To liberate these holy souls, who, in the bosom of Abraham were expecting the Saviour, Christ the Lord descended into hell," and "Christ the Lord descended, on the contrary, not to suffer, but to liberate the holy and the just from their painful captivity." The Catechism says on this point that "he descended there as Savior" (See also CCC 632-633; Compendium Sec 125). So this "descent" of Christ had nothing to do with divine punishments.

see also http://catholicnick.blogspot.com/2014/04/does-catholic-view-of-christs-atonement.html

Why does Christ's blood atone?

from comment127 here http://www.calledtocommunion.com/2010/04/catholic-and-reformed-conceptions-of-the-atonement/

"... why does Christ’s blood atone. The blood represents the very life. To give one’s possessions (e.g. house, property, clothes, money) is to give something external to oneself. But to pour out one’s blood unto death, is to give one’s very self. Hence Jesus says, “Greater love has no man than this, that he lay down his life for his friends.” (Jn. 15:13) This is why His blood is so precious, and St. Peter explains that we “were not redeemed with perishable things like silver or gold from your futile way of life inherited from your forefathers, but with precious blood, as of a lamb unblemished and spotless, the blood of Christ.” (1 Pet. 1:18-19) Christ redeemed us by giving the greatest gift of love, namely, His very life, letting it be poured out for our salvation. By His blood, He offered Himself without blemish to God (Heb 9:14), and by means of this sacrifice made peace with God for us (Col 1:20) and purchased the Church (Acts 20:28; Rev. 5:9). Christ’s blood sanctifies us (and the NT frequently alludes to the OT practice of cleansing things by the sprinkling of blood) because through this perfect offering to God, Christ won for us the sanctifying grace and agape by which we are sanctified."

Was Christ damned on the Cross?

An interesting article on this is found here  http://www.calledtocommunion.com/2010/04/catholic-and-reformed-conceptions-of-the-atonement/

from comment 18

Let me add something as a point of clarification and qualification. To be damned is to be without hope, and without charity. It is to know that one is eternally separated from God, with no hope, not even the possibility of there being hope. That is utter despair. To be damned is to hate God, and to hate His justice. To be damned is to hate oneself with never-ending hatred that knows itself to be never-ending. But Christ endured the cross for the joy set before Him; He always retained hope and charity. He did not despair (that would have been a mortal sin). Nor did He hate God. Thus He never hated Himself. Nor did He ever lose sanctifying grace; otherwise His human will would have been against His divine will. So, for these reasons, if we say that He experienced what it is like to be damned, we must include some very important qualifications. He experienced the external loss of divine protection, and the interior loss of spiritual consolation. The damned also experience that, so in those two respects Christ experienced what it is like to be damned. But Christ didn’t experience the despair, self-loathing, hatred for God and deprivation of grace that the damned experience. So in those respects Christ didn’t experience what it is like to be damned.

see also this link where Thomas Aquinus' s view of Christ descending into hell in the creed is explained: http://nannykim-catholicconsiderations.blogspot.com/2013/05/christ-descended-into-hell-meaning.html

from comment 26 on the first link above:

 All three of the [synoptic] Gospel writers refer to the darkness that fell over the whole land from the sixth hour (i.e. noon) until the ninth hour (i.e. 3 pm). (Cf. Matthew 27:45, Mark 15:33, and Luke 23:44.) But so far as I know, none of the Church Fathers interpret this as an indication that God the Father ‘turned His back’ on the Son. This was a sign to those who had called “crucify him, crucify him,” just as darkness was one of the plagues of Egypt before the Passover, a sign that they were opposing God, and that they should repent. This was creation groaning over what was being done to its Creator.

As for the meaning of Christ’s cry “My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?” we should not understand that as meaning that the Son (in His divine nature) was cut off from the Trinity or separated from the perfect happiness of the divine life. But in His human nature He experienced what it is like to be handed over to His enemies and to suffer and die. In those respects He was forsaken. Likewise, in His human nature he experienced the absence of spiritual consolation, and in that respect too He was forsaken, even though He (in His human nature) did not cease to behold the Father. He spoke these words as man, that is, according to His human nature. But the Father never ceased to love Him, nor did the Father’s love for the Son ever diminish in the least. Everything the Son experienced on the cross, He Himself willed to experience, including these ways of being forsaken in His human nature. I recommend listening to the talk at this link.

also Newman's discourse on the death of Christ is helpful:[there is more at the link http://www.newmanreader.org/works/discourses/discourse16.html :

Our Lord said, when His agony was commencing, "My soul is sorrowful unto death"; now you may ask, my brethren, whether He had not certain consolations peculiar to Himself, impossible in any other, which diminished or impeded the distress of His soul, and caused Him to feel, not more, but less than an ordinary man. For instance, He had a sense of innocence which no other sufferer could have; even His persecutors, even the false apostle who betrayed Him, the judge who sentenced Him, and the soldiers who conducted the execution, testified His innocence. "I have condemned the innocent blood," said Judas; "I am clear from the blood of this just Person," said Pilate; "Truly this was a just Man," cried the centurion. And if even they, sinners, bore witness to His sinlessness, how much more did His own soul! And we know well that even in our own case, sinners as we are, on the consciousness of innocence or of guilt mainly turns our power of enduring opposition and calumny; how much more, you will say, in the case of our Lord, did the sense of inward sanctity compensate for the suffering and annihilate the shame! Again, you may say that He knew that His sufferings would be short, and that their issue would be joyful, whereas uncertainty of the future is the keenest element of human distress; but He could not have anxiety, for He was not in suspense; nor despondency or despair, for He never was deserted. {333} And in confirmation you may refer to St. Paul, who expressly tells us that, "for the joy set before Him," our Lord "despised the shame". And certainly there is a marvellous calm and self-possession in all He does: consider His warning to the Apostles, "Watch and pray, lest ye enter into temptation; the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak"; or His words to Judas, "Friend, wherefore art thou come?" and, "Judas, betrayest thou the Son of Man with a kiss?" or to Peter, "All that take the sword shall perish with the sword"; or to the man who struck Him, "If I have spoken evil, bear witness of the evil; but if well, why smitest thou Me?" or to His Mother, "Woman, behold thy Son".

All this is true and much to be insisted on; but it quite agrees with, or rather illustrates, what I have been observing. My brethren, you have only said (to use a human phrase) that He was always Himself. His mind was its own centre, and was never in the slightest degree thrown off its heavenly and most perfect balance. What He suffered, He suffered because He put Himself under suffering, and that deliberately and calmly. As He said to the leper, "I will, be thou clean"; and to the paralytic, "Thy sins be forgiven thee"; and to the centurion, "I will come and heal him"; and of Lazarus, "I go to wake him out of sleep"; so He said, "Now I will begin to suffer," and He did begin. His composure is but the proof how entirely He governed His own mind. He drew back, at the proper moment, the bolts and fastenings, and opened the gates, and the floods fell right {334} upon His soul in all their fulness. That is what St. Mark tells us of Him; and he is said to have written his Gospels from the very mouth of St. Peter, who was one of three witnesses present at the time. "They came," he says, "to the place which is called Gethsemani; and He saith to His disciples, Sit you here while I pray. And He taketh with Him Peter and James and John, and He began to be frightened and to be very heavy." You see how deliberately He acts; He comes to a certain spot; and then, giving the word of command, and withdrawing the support of the God-head from His soul, distress, terror, and dejection at once rush in upon it. Thus He walks forth into a mental agony with as definite an action as if it were some bodily torture, the fire or the wheel.

This being the case, you will see at once, my brethren, that it is nothing to the purpose to say that He would be supported under His trial by the consciousness of innocence and the anticipation of triumph; for His trial consisted in the withdrawal, as of other causes of consolation, so of that very consciousness and anticipation. The same act of the will which admitted the influence upon His soul of any distress at all, admitted all distresses at once. It was not the contest between antagonist impulses and views, coming from without, but the operation of an inward resolution. As men of self-command can turn from one thought to another at their will, so much more did He deliberately deny Himself the comfort, and satiate Himself with the woe. In that moment His soul thought not of the future, He thought only of the {335} present burden which was upon Him, and which He had come upon earth to sustain.

from comment 157 here  http://www.calledtocommunion.com/2010/04/catholic-and-reformed-conceptions-of-the-atonement/

 what St. Thomas is speaking of when he writes of the interior suffering (suffering in soul) of Christ for the sins of the whole human race. According to St. Thomas, because Christ in His Passion retains the beatific vision, He sees each sin ever committed and to be committed, and sees perfectly the way it wrongs God by failing to give Him the love, obedience, honor and glory that is due to God. Hence St. Thomas says in Summa Theologica III Q.46 a.6, when he writes:

The cause of the interior pain was, first of all, all the sins of the human race, for which He made satisfaction by suffering; hence He ascribes them, so to speak, to Himself, saying (Psalm 21:2): “The words of my sins.”

According to St. Thomas, the interior pain was not one of His conscience tormenting Him for wrongdoing, since He had never sinned. Nor was the Father angry with Him, and pouring out an angry tirade within Christ’s soul for our sins, while Christ ‘took it like a man.’ Rather, Christ was sorrowed, grieving in His soul over our sins. In Catholic language, as our High Priest He was making an act of contrition for all our sins, in solidarity with us. His solidarity with us, in His heart grieving over our sins and their offense against God, this was the source of His internal suffering. This is the way He ‘stood in the gap,’ not by receiving a stream of wrath from the Father, but by making the perfect act of contrition to the Father on our behalf as both intercessor (High Priest), and victim (i.e. sacrifice).