"Our earthly liturgies must be celebrations full of beauty and power: Feasts of the Father who created us—that is why the gifts of the earth play such a great part: the bread, the wine, oil and light, incense, sacred music, and splendid colors. Feasts of the Son who redeemed us—that is why we rejoice in our liberation, breathe deeply in listening to the Word, and are strengthened in eating the Eucharistic Gifts. Feasts of the Holy Spirit who lives in us—that is why there is a wealth of consolation, knowledge, courage, strength, and blessing that flows from these sacred assemblies." unknown source possibly YOUCAT Mal.1.11 For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name shall be great among the Gentiles; and in every place incense shall be offered unto my name, and a pure offering: for my name shall be great among the heathen, saith theLord of hosts.

Monday, March 25, 2013

muslim/christian God same or different

Interesting article worth the read here---do Muslims, Jews, Christians worship the same God? http://www.reasonablefaith.org/do-muslims-and-christians-worship-the-same-godhttp://www.reasonablefaith.org/do-muslims-and-christians-worship-the-same-god

http://www.catholic.com/blog/todd-aglialoro/christians-muslims-and-the-one-god

http://catholicbridge.com/catholic/catholics_muslim_pagan.php

http://www.cuf.org/2007/09/faith-fact-muslims-and-the-one-god/

http://www.cuf.org/2002/07/what-every-catholic-should-know-about-islam/

http://www.vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_const_19641121_lumen-gentium_en.html

from lumen gentium:

16. Finally, those who have not yet received the Gospel are related in various ways to the people of God.(18*) In the first place we must recall the people to whom the testament and the promises were given and from whom Christ was born according to the flesh.(125) On account of their fathers this people remains most dear to God, for God does not repent of the gifts He makes nor of the calls He issues.(126) But the plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator. In the first place amongst these there are the Muslims, who, professing to hold the faith of Abraham, along with us adore the one and merciful God, who on the last day will judge mankind. Nor is God far distant from those who in shadows and images seek the unknown God, for it is He who gives to all men life and breath and all things,(127) and as Saviour wills that all men be saved.(128) Those also can attain to salvation who through no fault of their own do not know the Gospel of Christ or His Church, yet sincerely seek God and moved by grace strive by their deeds to do His will as it is known to them through the dictates of conscience.(19*) Nor does Divine Providence deny the helps necessary for salvation to those who, without blame on their part, have not yet arrived at an explicit knowledge of God and with His grace strive to live a good life. Whatever good or truth is found amongst them is looked upon by the Church as a preparation for the Gospel.(20*) She knows that it is given by Him who enlightens all men so that they may finally have life. But often men, deceived by the Evil One, have become vain in their reasonings and have exchanged the truth of God for a lie, serving the creature rather than the Creator.(129) Or some there are who, living and dying in this world without God, are exposed to final despair. Wherefore to promote the glory of God and procure the salvation of all of these, and mindful of the command of the Lord, "Preach the Gospel to every creature",(130) the Church fosters the missions with care and attention.

17. As the Son was sent by the Father,(131) so He too sent the Apostles, saying: "Go, therefore, make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you. And behold I am with you all days even to the consummation of the world".(132) The Church has received this solemn mandate of Christ to proclaim the saving truth from the apostles and must carry it out to the very ends of the earth.(133) Wherefore she makes the words of the Apostle her own: "Woe to me, if I do not preach the Gospel",(134) and continues unceasingly to send heralds of the Gospel until such time as the infant churches are fully established and can themselves continue the work of evangelizing. For the Church is compelled by the Holy Spirit to do her part that God's plan may be fully realized, whereby He has constituted Christ as the source of salvation for the whole world.

http://www.renewalministries.net/files/freeliterature/lumen_gentium_16_fcs.pdf

http://www.arcaneknowledge.org/catholic/councils/comment21-03.htm  which states in part:

But the plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator. In the first place amongst these there are the Mohammedans, who, professing to hold the faith of Abraham, along with us adore the one and merciful God, who on the last day will judge mankind. Nor is God far distant from those who in shadows and images seek the unknown God, for it is He who gives to all men life and breath and all things, and as Saviour wills that all men be saved. (LG, 16)
Since God’s “plan of salvation” is implemented solely through the Church, the Council is here asserting that the Church is linked in some way to all who believe in the Creator. This is most obviously the case with the Muslims, who share our belief in the one God of Abraham. It cannot be said that the God of Islam is another false god, even if the Muslims might differ from Christians in theological doctrines. They clearly give honor to the Creator, not a mere creature, and respect His sovereignty over all men. This ability to recognize the one God is a gift of the Holy Spirit administered through the Church. Going further, St. Paul famously commended the Athenians for honoring a mere “unknown God.” (Acts 17:23) Though they had no positive understanding of the one God as the Muslims do, they at least had the inclination to honor that which transcended their understanding of creation. This seeking is also a gift of the Holy Ghost to the Church. We should not be surprised to see this salvific activity beyond the visible structure of the Church, given the Savior’s desire for all men to be saved. (1 Tim. 2:4)
Those also can attain to salvation who through no fault of their own do not know the Gospel of Christ or His Church, yet sincerely seek God and moved by grace strive by their deeds to do His will as it is known to them through the dictates of conscience. Nor does Divine Providence deny the helps necessary for salvation to those who, without blame on their part, have not yet arrived at an explicit knowledge of God and with His grace strive to live a good life. Whatever good or truth is found amongst them is looked upon by the Church as a preparation for the Gospel. She knows that it is given by Him who enlightens all men so that they may finally have life. (LG, 16)
The possibility of salvation for the inculpably ignorant is not a new teaching, but was already articulated a century earlier by Bl. Pope Pius IX in Quanto Conficiamur (1863):
There are, of course, those who are struggling with invincible ignorance about our most holy religion. Sincerely observing the natural law and its precepts inscribed by God on all hearts and ready to obey God, they live honest lives and are able to attain eternal life by the efficacious virtue of divine light and grace. Because God knows, searches and clearly understands the minds, hearts, thoughts, and nature of all, his supreme kindness and clemency do not permit anyone at all who is not guilty of deliberate sin to suffer eternal punishments. (Quanto Conficiamur, 7)
This acknowledgement of the salvation of those not visibly connected to the Church does not contradict the ancient doctrine extra ecclesia nulla salus, for these divine gifts are administered through the Church. Pope Pius, in fact reaffirms the traditional doctrine in the words that follow:
Also well known is the Catholic teaching that no one can be saved outside the Catholic Church. Eternal salvation cannot be obtained by those who oppose the authority and statements of the same Church and are stubbornly separated from the unity of the Church and also from the successor of Peter, the Roman Pontiff... (Quanto Conficiamur, 8)
The hope of salvation for the “invincibly ignorant” is no cause for relief among those who consciously and virulently oppose the Catholic Church. Salvation outside her visible structure, being the work of the same Spirit that unifies the Church, can only impel non-Christians to view the Church more favorably. Whoever hates the Catholic Church does not have the Holy Spirit, and opposes Christ. “He who hears you hears me, and he who rejects you, rejects me, and he who rejects me, rejects him who sent me.” (Luke 10:16) “He who does not believe will be condemned.” (Mark 16:16) Unbelief is culpable only when the Gospel has been clearly presented and consciously rejected. There can be no opposition among the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, so there can be no salvific action where there is opposition to the Son and His Body the Church.
The Church nonetheless has an urgent mission, because of the real danger of the loss of salvation among those outside her visible structure:
But often men, deceived by the Evil One, have become vain in their reasonings and have exchanged the truth of God for a lie, serving the creature rather than the Creator. Or some there are who, living and dying in this world without God, are exposed to final despair. Wherefore to promote the glory of God and procure the salvation of all of these, and mindful of the command of the Lord, “Preach the Gospel to every creature,” the Church fosters the missions with care and attention. (LG, 16)
There is no salvation for those who put their trust in perishable things, as do those who devote their life to the pursuit of wealth and worldly pleasure. This foolish idolatry is shared even by those intellectuals who effectively ascribe divine power to natural objects, conceiving them as having no need of a Creator. The prevalence of this belief is due to vanity, not intelligence, for the philosophically sophisticated will recognize the radical contingency of the natural order, even when this order is expressed in mathematical terms. In these materialist cultural tendencies, we see an aversion to salvific action, as misguided people seek a false self-sufficiency that can only end in death, as they would cut themselves off from the Source of life. Others separate themselves from God not because they have misplaced trust in mere creatures, but because they despair altogether. In all these cases, the Church is doing an inestimable service by preaching the Gospel, offering wisdom to vain fools and hope to the disconsolate.

The modern Church has not abandoned her imperative to preach the Gospel to all nations: “For the Church is compelled by the Holy Spirit to do her part that God’s plan may be fully realized, whereby He has constituted Christ as the source of salvation for the whole world.” (LG, 17) As the Church brings the Gospel to those in “the slavery of error and of idols,” she purifies and perfects “whatever good lies latent in the religious practices and cultures of diverse peoples.” The obligation to evangelize binds all the faithful, though “the priest alone can complete the building up of the Body in the eucharistic sacrifice.” Committed to evangelizing all nations, “the Church both prays and labors in order that the entire world may become the People of God.” This sense of universal mission has no hint of religious indifferentism, and is consistent with the Church’s perennial conviction that the Gospel is the perfection and fulfillment of all that is good in the hopes of the nations.

http://www.agapebiblestudy.com/documents/is%20salvation%20possible%20outside%20the%20church%20.htm   Paragraph 16 of Lumen Gentium from Vatican II says that Muslims who worship in the religion of Abraham may share in salvation.  There is further clarification of this in Vatican II's Declaration on the relationship of the Church to Non-Christian Religions (see paragraph 3 relating to Muslims). Basically this document states that the plan of salvation includes not only practicing Catholics, but also those who acknowledge the Creator and who strive wholeheartedly to live up to His decrees like Jews and Muslims.  There is still the same problem of mortal sin and the goal of salvation for those who follow those faiths is extremely limited because of the absence of the graces that flows from the sacraments instituted by Christ and that such salvation does not come from the false salvation as spelled out by their other-than-Christian- faiths.  Their salvation without water baptism is possible through the "baptism of desire" but after affirming the legitimacy of "baptism of desire" Pope Pius XII writes in 1943 , On the Mystical Body of Jesus Christ:  concerning those who do not belong to the body of the Catholic Church but who are related to the Mystical Body of the Redeemer by a certain unconscious yearning and desire, and these he by no means excludes from eternal salvation, but on the other hand states that they are in a condition "in which they cannot be sure of their salvation since they still remain deprived of those many heavenly gifts and helps which can only be enjoyed in the Catholic Church.
this one by Dave Armstrong--read it


As for the God of the Christians vs. ‘god’ of the Muslims, this requires care. If you say that Muslisms who claim to worship the Creator of heaven and earth, are worshiping a different ‘god’ than Christians worship, then you approach the error of Marcionism. Marcion claimed that the Creator was a different God from the Father of Jesus in the New Testament. That is why Marcion believed Jews worshiped a different God than do Christians. But Marcionism is a heresy. Jews worship the same God that Christians worship. But, then it is ad hoc to say that another sect, claiming to worship the Creator of the heavens and earth, is worshiping another god than the God Christians worship. If St. Paul was justified in saying to the Athenians regarding their altar to an unknown god: “What therefore you worship as unknown, this I proclaim to you. The God who made the world and everything in it … (Acts 17:23-24), then how much more should we be cautious in telling people who specifically claim to believe and worship the God who made the world and everything in it, that they worship a being other than the God Christians worship? Either we fall into Marcionism and deny that Jews worship the same God we worship, or we are ad hoc. So, care is due here.
I cannot tell you how many times I have heard Catholics give assent to other non-Christian religions as an acceptable means to know God and enter Heaven.
I hear you. Right now, this is a very serious problem. But the problem isn’t in the doctrine of the Church; it is in a misunderstanding of the Church’s doctrine. The Church teaches that no one gets to heaven except through Christ and His grace. Persons of other religions, if they have invincible ignorance of Christ, are not thereby damned for that ignorance. (The Church has always believed that.) The Church teaches that if they, following their conscience, and the grace God gives them, have perfect contrition and love for God, they may be saved. But if they, knowing that Christ has established the Church, refuse to enter it, they cannot be saved. I have written about that here.
Several months ago, I was going through a period of vacilation, wondering if my decision to refrain from crossing the Tiber was right. I started doing some of the “Catholic” things again, such as praying the Rosary, attending adoration, watching EWTN, etc. One evening, I turned on the t.v. and saw a priest, rabbi, and imam being interviewed by a local reporter. During the course of the interview, the priest commented to the effect that all religions are an acceptable means to arrive at the truth and come to know God.
I don’t know exactly what he said. If he said that it is possible to be saved in these various religions, that is the Church’s teaching; God, being omnipotent, is able to operate outside the limits of Christ’s Mystical Body. But if this priest said that all religions are an equally acceptable means to arrive at the truth and come to know God, then he misrepresented the Church’s position. There are some priests who misrepresent the Church’s position; don’t let them be a stumbling block. The Church is what she is, not what those who misrepresent her say she is. Go by the Catechism.
Regarding all the things you did in pursuing the truth about the Church, those are good. But don’t give up; don’t stop pursuing the truth. If you were caused to stumble by persons who misrepresented the Church, don’t let them prevent you from discovering the pearl of great price, which Christ wants you to have. I refuse to let bad Catholics keep me from the grace Christ wants me and my family to have through being in full communion with the Church He founded. If you study enough of what the Church actually teaches in her official documents, and search out orthodox and devout Catholics, then when you encounter bad Catholics, you won’t be moved away from the Church; you’ll recognize them as deviating from what the Church teaches, and you’ll be moved to pray for them, that they would come to a better knowledge of the truth.



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