"Our earthly liturgies must be celebrations full of beauty and power: Feasts of the Father who created us—that is why the gifts of the earth play such a great part: the bread, the wine, oil and light, incense, sacred music, and splendid colors. Feasts of the Son who redeemed us—that is why we rejoice in our liberation, breathe deeply in listening to the Word, and are strengthened in eating the Eucharistic Gifts. Feasts of the Holy Spirit who lives in us—that is why there is a wealth of consolation, knowledge, courage, strength, and blessing that flows from these sacred assemblies." unknown source possibly YOUCAT Mal.1.11 For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name shall be great among the Gentiles; and in every place incense shall be offered unto my name, and a pure offering: for my name shall be great among the heathen, saith theLord of hosts.

Sunday, November 25, 2012

Difference between Baptism removing all debt of punishment and of Penance and what happens in this sacrament

 This is a quote--found at the link below this quote:


St. Thomas teaches here that Christ’s Passion is sufficient in itself to remove all debt of punishment, not only eternal but also temporal. But we are released from the debt of punishment according to the measure of our participation in the power of Christ’s Passion. But we participate in Christ’s Passion differently in the sacrament of Baptism and in the sacrament of Penance; otherwise they would be one sacrament, not two. Every sacrament has both a form and matter. The matter of the sacrament of Baptism is water; the form is the baptismal formulate “I baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.”19  In the sacrament of Penance the acts of the penitent are the matter.20 Because the matter in the sacrament of Baptism is water, our participation in the power of Christ’s Passion is immediate and total. Hence in baptism all debt, both eternal and temporal, is remitted. By contrast, because in the sacrament of Penance the acts of the penitent are the matter, therefore, explains St. Thomas, in the sacrament of Penance we share in Christ’s Passion in one respect according to the measure of our own acts. That is, in the sacrament of Penance, while the entire debt of eternal punishment is remitted at once, the entire debt of temporal punishment is not remitted at once, but only when all the acts of penance have been completed.

 Why is this significant?
One reason it is helpful to consider what St. Thomas says here is that his teaching on this subject quite perfectly matches the doctrine of the Catholic Church. The Catechism of the Catholic Church clearly teaches that sin incurs this twofold debt:
[I]t is necessary to understand that sin has a double consequence. Grave sin deprives us of communion with God and therefore makes us incapable of eternal life, the privation of which is called the “eternal punishment” of sin. On the other hand every sin, even venial, entails an unhealthy attachment to creatures, which must be purified either here on earth, or after death in the state called Purgatory. This purification frees one from what is called the “temporal punishment” of sin. These two punishments must not be conceived of as a kind of vengeance inflicted by God from without, but as following from the very nature of sin. 21
And the Catechism likewise teaches that the absolution we receive in the sacrament of Penance removes sin, but not the temporal punishment of sin:
Many sins wrong our neighbor. One must do what is possible in order to repair the harm (e.g., return stolen goods, restore the reputation of someone slandered, pay compensation for injuries). Simple justice requires as much. But sin also injures and weakens the sinner himself, as well as his relationships with God and neighbor. Absolution takes away sin, but it does not remedy all the disorders sin has caused. Raised up from sin, the sinner must still recover his full spiritual health by doing something more to make amends for the sin: he must “make satisfaction for” or “expiate” his sins. This satisfaction is also called “penance.”
The penance the confessor imposes must take into account the penitent’s personal situation and must seek his spiritual good. It must correspond as far as possible with the gravity and nature of the sins committed. It can consist of prayer, an offering, works of mercy, service of neighbor, voluntary self-denial, sacrifices, and above all the patient acceptance of the cross we must bear. Such penances help configure us to Christ, who alone expiated our sins once for all. They allow us to become co-heirs with the risen Christ, “provided we suffer with him.”22

[above found in this article here http://www.calledtocommunion.com/2010/03/st-thomas-aquinas-on-penance/

Then from comment 7:


The two-turnings in relation to sin are very helpful. Baptism’s two fold effect is to immediately addresses both the eternal and temporal punishment for sin.
The post-baptismal remedies to the two-fold nature of sin (originally resolved by baptism) both flow from the sacrament of penance:
a.) Absolution granted within the sacrament of penance addresses the issue of eternal punishment for sin
b.) Penances flowing out of the sacrament of penance address the issue of temporal punishment for sin – Indulgences being a particular type of penance [end of quote]

But the CCC says;

1264 Yet certain temporal consequences of sin remain in the baptized, such as suffering, illness, death, and such frailties inherent in life as weaknesses of character, and so on, as well as an inclination to sin that Tradition calls concupiscence, or metaphorically, "the tinder for sin" (fomes peccati); since concupiscence "is left for us to wrestle with, it cannot harm those who do not consent but manfully resist it by the grace of Jesus Christ."67 Indeed, "an athlete is not crowned unless he competes according to the rules."68
 [I asked Bryan about the above quote and how it all relates and he stated on the above thread's comments:
  Temporal punishment for sin is not the same thing as the temporal consequences of sin. Temporal punishment is the temporal punishment due to oneself for one’s own sins. But the temporal consequences of sin are the result of Adam’s sin, not one’s own sins. Hence in John 9, when Jesus’s disciples asked Him, “Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he would be born blind?” Jesus answered, “It was neither that this man sinned, nor his parents; but it was so that the works of God might be displayed in him.” His being born blind was a temporal consequence of sin (i.e. the loss to mankind of the preternatural gifts, including the gift of impassibility), but it was not temporal punishment for his own sins. Nevertheless, by offering our sufferings to God in a state of grace, we can reduce the debt of temporal punishment we owe for the sins we have committed after our baptism.


interesting take on all of this by a Protestant here:

Day 156 - Why do we need a special sacrament of Reconciliation? But we have Baptism, which reconciles us with God; why then do we need a special sacrament of Reconciliation? Baptism does snatch us from the power of sin and death and brings us into the new life of the children of God, but it does not free us from human weakness and the inclination to sin. That is why we need a place where we can be reconciled with God again and again. That place is confession. It does not seem like a modern thing to go to confession; it can be difficult and may cost a great deal of effort at first. But it is one of the greatest graces that we can receive again and again in our lifeit truly renews the soul, completely unburdens it, leaving it without the debts of the past, accepted in love, and equipped with new strength. God is merciful, and he desires nothing more earnestly than for us, too, to lay claim to his mercy. Someone who has gone to confession turns a clean, new page in the book of his life. (YOUCAT question 226)

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