"Our earthly liturgies must be celebrations full of beauty and power: Feasts of the Father who created us—that is why the gifts of the earth play such a great part: the bread, the wine, oil and light, incense, sacred music, and splendid colors. Feasts of the Son who redeemed us—that is why we rejoice in our liberation, breathe deeply in listening to the Word, and are strengthened in eating the Eucharistic Gifts. Feasts of the Holy Spirit who lives in us—that is why there is a wealth of consolation, knowledge, courage, strength, and blessing that flows from these sacred assemblies." unknown source possibly YOUCAT Mal.1.11 For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name shall be great among the Gentiles; and in every place incense shall be offered unto my name, and a pure offering: for my name shall be great among the heathen, saith theLord of hosts.

Sunday, November 24, 2013

what about the thief on the cross/ no purgatory?

some answers found on a facebook site :

1.I would guess that his implicit desire for baptism was all that was necessary for his slate to be wiped clean. Purgatory is only a consideration when we commit sins after our baptism.

2.Also, "faith alone" types try to use the good thief as an example of how a person only needs faith apart from works to be saved. However, clearly the good thief did both demonstrate faith and perform good works - he rebuked a sinner, educated the ignorant, publicly defended Christ, publicly admitted his guilt and implicitly demonstrated true contrition.

To perform all these works I would guess he had a baptism of desire (or blood) at that moment and was open to grace. His suffering on the cross would atone for any sins and I would guess that such a painful death and sincere contrition would mean he went straight to heaven


3.Short answer, we don't know. Perhaps his suffering combined with his faith sufficed, perhaps Christ granted him a special privilege of grace, perhaps all purgation takes mere moments in our earthly time? We don't know. The point of the story is his faith in Christ, even as a sinner, and Christ's complete grace

4.time is only really a term used in accomodation to us when we think of the places of eternity (which are timeless) like heaven, hell and purgatory. So "tonight" would be Jesus' way of saying "soon," not literally at nightfall.

This makes sense to me, because after all, we know that "...he descended into hell. On the third day he rose again from the dead. He ascended into heaven..." so Jesus isn't even in heaven, speaking in our earthly conception of time, for a whole three days.


also on a comment here  http://www.creedcodecult.com/the-need-for-perfect-law-keeping-part-1/comment-page-1/#comments

I would say, “yes”. God is greater than His Sacraments. However, it would not be normative. There is not one example of such a thing in Scripture. Let me use the Good Thief for an example.
Protestants claim that it is an example of salvation by faith alone. But is it?
— 1 —
He suffered in the flesh. Scripture says:
1 Peter 4:1
1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;
Crucifixion is considered one of the most painful ways to die that man has ever invented. And, as you can see, suffering in the flesh does away with sin. Christ must have known that the Good Thief had expiated his sins by the suffering that he endured on that cross.
— 2 —
He suffered with Jesus. Scripture says:
Romans 8:17King James Version (KJV)
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
Who can deny that St. Dismas suffered with Christ? There he was suffering on the cross right next to Him. The only one any closer was Mary, His mother, who was spiritually suffering on the Cross with Jesus.
— 3 —
He admonished the sinner.
Do you remember that he reproved and rebuked the other criminal in defense of Jesus Christ? Scripture again says:
1 Thessalonians 5:14 [Full Chapter]
Now we exhort you, brethren, warn them that are unruly, comfort the feebleminded, support the weak, be patient toward all men.
This is a spiritual good work of mercy in accordance with the Teaching of the Church:

2447 The works of mercy are charitable actions by which we come to the aid of our neighbor in his spiritual and bodily necessities. Instructing, advising, consoling, comforting are spiritual works of mercy, as are forgiving and bearing wrongs patiently. The corporal works of mercy consist especially in feeding the hungry, sheltering the homeless, clothing the naked, visiting the sick and imprisoned, and burying the dead. Among all these, giving alms to the poor is one of the chief witnesses to fraternal charity: it is also a work of justice pleasing to God:
He who has two coats, let him share with him who has none and he who has food must do likewise. But give for alms those things which are within; and behold, everything is clean for you. If a brother or sister is ill-clad and in lack of daily food, and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what does it profit?
He gave good witness.
He openly confessed his faith in Jesus Christ, asking Him for salvation.
Matthew 10:32King James Version (KJV)
32 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.
And I would have posted many other things that he did, but this thing is being temperamental. Suffice to say, that from the Cross, the Good Thief accomplished many good works.
Hanging upon that cross beside Jesus, it is as though the Good Thief was standing before Jesus Christ at the Judgement. Jesus Christ judged the Good Thief according to his works which he had done in the body and knowing that he believed, He counted it to him as righteousness. Just as he does for all who, with the proper disposition of humility and faith, approach the Judgement Seat of Jesus Christ at the Sacraments.

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