confession of sin/st Augustine and other stuff

St. Augustine on forgiveness of sins

 Sermon to Catechumens on the Creed, regarding the article “the forgiveness of sins”, he writes:

“Forgiveness of sins.” You have [this article of] the Creed perfectly in you when you receive Baptism. Let none say, “I have done this or that sin: perchance that is not forgiven me.” What have you done? How great a sin have you done? Name any heinous thing you have committed, heavy, horrible, which you shudder even to think of: have done what you will: have you killed Christ? There is not than that deed any worse, because also than Christ there is nothing better. What a dreadful thing is it to kill Christ! Yet the Jews killed Him, and many afterwards believed on Him and drank His blood: they are forgiven the sin which they committed. When you have been baptized, hold fast a good life in the commandments of God, that you may guard your Baptism even unto the end. I do not tell you that you will live here without sin; but they are venial, without which this life is not. For the sake of all sins was Baptism provided; for the sake of light sins, without which we cannot be, was prayer provided. What has the Prayer? “Forgive us our debts, as we also forgive our debtors.” Once for all we have washing in Baptism, every day we have washing in prayer. Only, do not commit those things for which you must needs be separated from Christ’s body: which be far from you! For those whom you have seen doing penance, have committed heinous things, either adulteries or some enormous crimes: for these they do penance. Because if theirs had been light sins, to blot out these daily prayer would suffice.

In three ways then are sins remitted in the Church; by Baptism, by prayer, by the greater humility of penance; yet God does not remit sins but to the baptized. The very sins which He remits first, He remits not but to the baptized. When? When they are baptized. The sins which are after remitted upon prayer, upon penance, to whom He remits, it is to the baptized that He remits. For how can they say, “Our Father,” who are not yet born sons? (, Sermon to Catechumens on the Creed)

from comment 14 

http://www.calledtocommunion.com/2010/06/reformed-imputation-and-the-lords-prayer/

"  From another book (Pardon and Peace: A Sinner's Guide to Confession) I'm reading I was consoled to discover that there are a whole bunch of 70's kids who were never properly guided through the process of examining one's conscience...generally and daily.  I found this entry especially helpful and I hope you will too.

14.3 The Examination. How to do it. Contrition and resolutions.
The purpose of the examination of conscience is to get to know ourselves better, in order to become more receptive to the graces the Holy Spirit pours out upon us, and to grow to resemble Christ himself.

The question to ask ourselves which will perhaps give us the most light of all is:  On what have I set my heart? What takes up the most room in it? Is it Christ? At the very moment of putting this question, the answer comes within me.  This question causes me to cast a rapid glance into the innermost centre of my being, and I at once see the salient points;  I give ear to the tone echoed by my soul, and immediately catch the dominant note.  It is an intuitive proceeding, and is quite instantaneous... It is a glance... Sometimes I shall see that my dominant disposition is the want of approval or praise, or the fear of reproach.  Sometimes, the bitterness that springs from some annoyance, from some harmful project or proceeding, or else the resentment caused by some remonstrance.  Sometimes, the pain of being under suspicion, or the trouble felt through some aversion.  Or, it may be the slackness induced by sensuality, or the discouragement resulting from difficulties or failure.  At other times routine, the product of carelessness, or frivolity, the product of idle curiosity and empty gaiety, etc.  Or else, on the contrary, it may be the love of God, the desire for sacrifice, the fervour kindled by some touch of grace, full submission to God, the joy of humility, etc.  Whether it be good or bad, it is the main and dominant disposition that must be ascertained; for we must look at the good as well as the evil, since it is the state of the heart that it is important to know.  I must go directly to the mainspring which sets all the wheel  of the clock in motion. (J. Tissot)

When we are examining our consciences our aim is to discover whether that day we have fulfilled the will of God and carried out what was expected of us, or whether we have followed our own will.  And then we should come down to specific details of our behaviour towards God; of how we have fulfilled our duties towards him in our plan of life, in our work, in our relationships with other people.  Let us examine how much determination we have put into struggling against our tendencies to love of comfort and to the creation of imaginary necessities for ourselves.  Let us look at how much effort we have made, for example, to lead a life which even on social occasions is sober and temperate in eating and drinking, and in the use of earthly goods.  We have to see if we have fulled the day which has just passed with the love of God, or if, unhappily, we have let it remain epty for all eternity (something that will not happen if we allow ourselves to be helped by grace), or if it has been defiled by sin.  It is like a miniature judgement to which we submit ourselves beforehand.

We will detect some things which need to be borne in mind for our next Confession.  We must always finish with an act of contrition, because if there is no repentance the examination will have been useless.  we should make some small resolution, which we can renew at the beginning of the next day, either in our morning offering, in our personal prayer, or in the Holy Mass.  And finally we should give thanks to Our Lord for all the good things which He has given us that day. a'-Francis Fernandez

also a good article on confession here  http://lifeteen.com/my-side-of-the-confessional-what-is-it-like-for-a-priest/



Below is from comment 397      here:  http://www.calledtocommunion.com/2012/08/imputation-and-paradigms-a-reply-to-nicholas-batzig/

“There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.” This statement is in the present tense. As Jesus said, “It is finished.” On the other hand, the Catholic Church teaches that there is in fact condemnation that remains for those who are in Christ Jesus… and that this condemnation can only be removed by: participation in the sacraments, acts of good works, penance and the fire of purgatory, etc.

Of course the Catholic Church also affirms this verse (Rom 8:1). But ‘condemnation’ refers to the condemnation of eternal damnation, not to temporal punishment. St. Paul isn’t saying there (in Rom 8:1) that everyone who is in Christ has no debt of temporal punishment. Again, you’re reading the term ‘condemnation’ through a Protestant lens, and thus begging the question. (And, the Protestant has the burden of proof, for the reasons I explained in comment #18 of the “Some Thoughts Concerning Michael Horton’s Three Recent Articles” thread, and in the very last paragraph of the “Does the Bible Teach Sola Fide?” post.)

You wrote:

The Scripture I read says we were chosen for salvation before the beginning of time, and nothing can snatch us from the hand of the Father. Our sins past, present and future are already forgiven.

Except, in your view, for the sin of idolatry. Right? Regarding John 10:28-29, again, the Catholic Church affirms these verses. But the Church has never interpreted these passages to mean that a regenerated person can never lose his justification, or can fail to be saved, through mortal sin. Scripture repeatedly teaches the genuine possibility of apostasy unto damnation. See the second part of comment #13 in the “Justification: The Catholic Church and the Judaizers in St. Paul’s Letter to the Galatians” post.

What you are imposing on the text (of John 10:28-29) is the assumption that all the regenerate are elect-to-glory. The fact that none of the elect-to-glory can be lost does not mean that “you” are one of the elect-to-glory, as you presume when you say “The Scripture I read says we were chosen for salvation before the beginning of time, and nothing can snatch us from the hand of the Father.” Just to be clear, I’m not saying that you are not one of the elect-to-glory; from a Catholic point of view, we do not know whether we are elect-to-glory, unless we receive some kind of personal supernatural revelation [i.e. an angel appears and informs Joe that Joe is elect-to-glory].

Nor does Scripture anywhere teach that a believer’s “present and future” sins have already been forgiven. Nor does any Church Father teach that. Rather, we pray daily in the Lord’s Prayer, “forgive us our trespasses,” which would be pointless if all our sins were already forgiven. See “Reformed Imputation and the Lord’s Prayer.”

You wrote:

This implies that the work of Christ is not finished… that there is an ongoing sacrifice at each celebration of the Eucharist. What happened to “once for all”?

You assume that “once for all” is incompatible with anything soteriological ongoing. The problem with that assumption is that it would require Hebrews 7:25 to be ripped out of the Bible. To the fact of Christ’s ongoing intercession one could say, “What happened to once for all?” So the problem is in the assumption you are bringing to the text. What is finished is finished; and what is ongoing is ongoing. The fact that something is finished does not entail that everything is finished, and that nothing is ongoing.

So, to answer your question, while I believe John 3:18 “Whoever believes in him is not condemned…”, the Catholic Church teaches otherwise.

The Catholic Church teaches otherwise than your interpretation, because you assume a Reformed conception of ‘condemnation,’ namely, as including both temporal punishment for past sins and including the punishment of all present and future sins. But the Catholic Church does not teach contrary to the authentic interpretation of Scripture, according to which ‘condemnation’ refers to eternal damnation.

I would fall in the camp of supra scriptura… that all other ecclesial information must agree with the writings of Scripture in its entirety. We all agree that Scripture is divinely inspired. Therefore, all ecclesial matters must agree with Scripture to pass the “truth test”.

As a Catholic, I fully agree with that, if by “agree with” you mean be compatible with. In that sense all of the Church’s teaching agree with the writings of Scripture. (But they may not agree with “your interpretation” of Scripture.) However, there is a Protestant-Catholic disagreement regarding the authority of Tradition, as I explained in the “Scripture and Tradition section of my reply to Horton.

I am responsible for my own account. I can’t draw on the Church Fathers, or tradition or other ecclesial writing. I am responsible for my response to God’s revelation through Scripture.

It is one thing to assume that the works of other persons make my own unnecessary. It is quite another to recognize that the authority and insights of others can help me follow Christ correctly, and that to ignore or disdain them purposefully is to make myself culpable for the errors I commit in my resulting ignorance, and for disobeying Christ by disobeying the authorities He established. So I agree with you that I am responsible for my response to God, in the sense that I cannot assume that the obedience or merit of the Church Fathers makes my own obedience unnecessary. But insofar as you are suggesting that our responsibility for our own choices means that we cannot learn from the teachings of the Church Fathers, or cannot follow Christ by following the successors of the Apostles, then I completely disagree. That would be like a first century Christian saying “Because I’m responsible for my choices, I cannot trust the Apostles’ teaching regarding Christ and how to follow Christ.” On the contrary, because I will have to give an account for my actions, if I ignore the teaching of those whom Christ and the Apostles authorized, I will have to give an account for ignoring them and in pride leaning instead on my own understanding and my own interpretation rather than humbly submitting to those whom Christ authorized to shepherd His Church until He returns.

Because we are individually responsible, we must individually discern God’s Word and respond to it.

That’s an egregious non sequitur. Nor did Jesus agree with your conclusion, because He appointed Apostles. Moreover, the error of the individualism (“solo scriptura”) position you are seemingly advocating is laid out very clearly in Keith Mathison’s The Shape of Sola Scriptura. (And, he’s a Protestant, as I think you already know.)

Regarding the ecclesial deism article you wrote:

Perhaps the Reformation was the way God preserved the Church

I addressed that in the article. The period of time to which I am referring in the article is the 1,500 years preceding the Reformation.

You wrote:

Perhaps God is active today in all Christians churches. Perhaps God is bigger than one organization. There is only one Christ. All whom He has chosen will believe in Him … Priests, Popes and Protestants … will be saved. So says Scripture. It is interesting to me that so many of the contributors here came to Christ through Protestant churches. Jesus said, “I tell you, if these become silent, the stones will cry out!” Maybe Protestants are just the stones.

I surely agree that God is active in all Christian communities, and that He is “bigger” than one organization, and that there is only “one Christ.” Nevertheless, there is also only “one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church” which Christ founded, and to which all Christians should be joined in full communion. The fact that God is active everywhere does not justify being in schism from the Church Christ founded.

from http://www.calledtocommunion.com/2009/04/aquinas-and-trent-part-6/  below

He observes that baptized persons who fall into mortal sin and then receive the sacrament of penance, are given some penance to do. According to the objection, this implies that Christ’s work was not sufficient to pay their debt of punishment, because no one whose debt is already paid should be made to pay anything additional. Aquinas then replies:

As stated above (1, ad 4,5), in order to secure the effects of Christ’s Passion, we must be likened unto Him. Now we are likened unto Him sacramentally in Baptism, according to Romans 6:4: “For we are buried together with Him by baptism into death.” Hence no punishment of satisfaction is imposed upon men at their baptism, since they are fully delivered by Christ’s satisfaction. But because, as it is written (1 Peter 3:18), “Christ died” but “once for our sins,” therefore a man cannot a second time be likened unto Christ’s death by the sacrament of Baptism. Hence it is necessary that those who sin after Baptism be likened unto Christ suffering by some form of punishment or suffering which they endure in their own person; yet, by the co-operation of Christ’s satisfaction, much lighter penalty suffices than one that is proportionate to the sin.⁴¹

Here Aquinas explains that in order to secure [consequamur] the effects of Christ’s Passion, it is necessary that we be configured [configurari] to Him. And we are configured to Him sacramentally in Baptism, because in Baptism we are buried together with Him into His death, as the Apostle Paul teaches. Therefore there is no punishment of satisfaction imposed on men at their baptism, because through Christ’s satisfaction, all the punishment for their sin until that time, is canceled by their union with Christ in baptism. But since Christ died but once for sins, therefore we cannot be configured to Him by being baptized again. So those who sin after baptism must be configured to Christ suffering, by some form of temporal punishment [poenalitatis] or suffering [passionis] which they themselves endure. Yet, explains Aquinas, by the cooperation of Christ’s satisfaction [cooperante satisfactione Christi], this penance that penitents must do is much lighter than is deserved for their [post-baptismal] sins. So for Aquinas the requirement of doing penance for post-baptismal sin is not due to Christ’s satisfaction being insufficient, but rather because since Christ died only once, we cannot be baptized again as a remedy for post-baptismal sins, and so must be configured to Him by sharing in His suffering.

from  http://catholichome.webs.com/faq.htm

Are All of Our Sins - Past, Present and Future- Forgiven Once We Become Christians?

A.  Not according to the Bible or the early Church Fathers. Scripture nowhere states that our future sins are forgiven; instead, it teaches us to pray, "And forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors" (Matt. 6:12).

The means by which God forgives sins after baptism is confession: "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness" (1 John 1:9). Minor or venial sins can be confessed directly to God, but for grave or mortal sins, which crush the spiritual life out of the soul, God has instituted a different means for obtaining forgiveness—the sacrament known popularly as confession, penance, or reconciliation.

This sacrament is rooted in the mission God gave to Christ in his capacity as the Son of man on earth to go and forgive sins (cf. Matt. 9:6). Thus, the crowds who witnessed this new power "glorified God, who had given such authority to men" (Matt. 9:8; note the plural "men"). After his resurrection, Jesus passed on his mission to forgive sins to his ministers, telling them, "As the Father has sent me, even so I send you. . . . Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained" (John 20:21–23).

Since it is not possible to confess all of our many daily faults, we know that sacramental reconciliation is required only for grave or mortal sins—but it is required, or Christ would not have commanded it.

Over time, the forms in which the sacrament has been administered have changed. In the early Church, publicly known sins (such as apostasy) were often confessed openly in church, though private confession to a priest was always an option for privately committed sins. Still, confession was not just something done in silence to God alone, but something done "in church," as the Didache (A.D. 70) indicates.

Penances also tended to be performed before rather than after absolution, and they were much more strict than those of today (ten years’ penance for abortion, for example, was common in the early Church).

But the basics of the sacrament have always been there, as the following quotations reveal. Of special significance is their recognition that confession and absolution must be received by a sinner before receiving Holy Communion, for "[w]hoever . . . eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of profaning the body and blood of the Lord" (1 Cor. 11:27).  

The Didache
"Confess your sins in church, and do not go up to your prayer with an evil conscience. This is the way of life. . . . On the Lord’s Day gather together, break bread, and give thanks, after confessing your transgressions so that your sacrifice may be pure" (Didache 4:14, 14:1 [A.D. 70]).  

The Letter of Barnabas
"You shall judge righteously. You shall not make a schism, but you shall pacify those that contend by bringing them together. You shall confess your sins. You shall not go to prayer with an evil conscience. This is the way of light" (Letter of Barnabas 19 [A.D. 74]).

Ignatius of Antioch"For as many as are of God and of Jesus Christ are also with the bishop. And as many as shall, in the exercise of penance, return into the unity of the Church, these, too, shall belong to God, that they may live according to Jesus Christ" (Letter to the Philadelphians 3 [A.D. 110]).

"For where there is division and wrath, God does not dwell. To all them that repent, the Lord grants forgiveness, if they turn in penitence to the unity of God, and to communion with the bishop" (ibid., 8). 

Irenaeus
"[The Gnostic disciples of Marcus] have deluded many women. . . . Their consciences have been branded as with a hot iron. Some of these women make a public confession, but others are ashamed to do this, and in silence, as if withdrawing from themselves the hope of the life of God, they either apostatize entirely or hesitate between the two courses" (Against Heresies 1:22 [A.D. 189]). 

Tertullian
"[Regarding confession, some] flee from this work as being an exposure of themselves, or they put it off from day to day. I presume they are more mindful of modesty than of salvation, like those who contract a disease in the more shameful parts of the body and shun making themselves known to the physicians; and thus they perish along with their own bashfulness" (Repentance 10:1 [A.D. 203]). 

Hippolytus
"[The bishop conducting the ordination of the new bishop shall pray:] God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. . . . Pour forth now that power which comes from you, from your royal Spirit, which you gave to your beloved Son, Jesus Christ, and which he bestowed upon his holy apostles . . . and grant this your servant, whom you have chosen for the episcopate, [the power] to feed your holy flock and to serve without blame as your high priest, ministering night and day to propitiate unceasingly before your face and to offer to you the gifts of your holy Church, and by the Spirit of the high priesthood to have the authority to forgive sins, in accord with your command" (Apostolic Tradition 3 [A.D. 215]). 

Origen
"[A final method of forgiveness], albeit hard and laborious [is] the remission of sins through penance, when the sinner . . . does not shrink from declaring his sin to a priest of the Lord and from seeking medicine, after the manner of him who say, ‘I said, "To the Lord I will accuse myself of my iniquity"’" (Homilies on Leviticus 2:4 [A.D. 248]). 

Cyprian of Carthage"The apostle [Paul] likewise bears witness and says: ‘ . . . Whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord unworthily will be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord’ [1 Cor. 11:27]. But [the impenitent] spurn and despise all these warnings; before their sins are expiated, before they have made a confession of their crime, before their conscience has been purged in the ceremony and at the hand of the priest . . . they do violence to [the Lord’s] body and blood, and with their hands and mouth they sin against the Lord more than when they denied him" (The Lapsed 15:1–3 (A.D. 251]).

"Of how much greater faith and salutary fear are they who . . . confess their sins to the priests of God in a straightforward manner and in sorrow, making an open declaration of conscience. . . . I beseech you, brethren, let everyone who has sinned confess his sin while he is still in this world, while his confession is still admissible, while the satisfaction and remission made through the priests are still pleasing before the Lord" (ibid., 28).

"[S]inners may do penance for a set time, and according to the rules of discipline come to public confession, and by imposition of the hand of the bishop and clergy receive the right of Communion. [But now some] with their time [of penance] still unfulfilled . . . they are admitted to Communion, and their name is presented; and while the penitence is not yet performed, confession is not yet made, the hands of the bishop and clergy are not yet laid upon them, the Eucharist is given to them; although it is written, ‘Whosoever shall eat the bread and drink the cup of the Lord unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord’ [1 Cor. 11:27]" (Letters 9:2 [A.D. 253]).

"And do not think, dearest brother, that either the courage of the brethren will be lessened, or that martyrdoms will fail for this cause, that penance is relaxed to the lapsed, and that the hope of peace [i.e., absolution] is offered to the penitent. . . . For to adulterers even a time of repentance is granted by us, and peace is given" (ibid., 51[55]:20).

"But I wonder that some are so obstinate as to think that repentance is not to be granted to the lapsed, or to suppose that pardon is to be denied to the penitent, when it is written, ‘Remember whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works’ [Rev. 2:5], which certainly is said to him who evidently has fallen, and whom the Lord exhorts to rise up again by his deeds [of penance], because it is written, ‘Alms deliver from death’ [Tob. 12:9]" (ibid., 51[55]:22). 

Aphraahat the Persian Sage
"You [priests], then, who are disciples of our illustrious physician [Christ], you ought not deny a curative to those in need of healing. And if anyone uncovers his wound before you, give him the remedy of repentance. And he that is ashamed to make known his weakness, encourage him so that he will not hide it from you. And when he has revealed it to you, do not make it public, lest because of it the innocent might be reckoned as guilty by our enemies and by those who hate us" (Treatises 7:3 [A.D. 340]).  

Basil the Great
"It is necessary to confess our sins to those to whom the dispensation of God’s mysteries is entrusted. Those doing penance of old are found to have done it before the saints. It is written in the Gospel that they confessed their sins to John the Baptist [Matt. 3:6], but in Acts [19:18] they confessed to the apostles" (Rules Briefly Treated 288 [A.D. 374]).

John Chrysostom
"Priests have received a power which God has given neither to angels nor to archangels. It was said to them: ‘Whatsoever you shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatsoever you shall loose, shall be loosed.’ Temporal rulers have indeed the power of binding; but they can only bind the body. Priests, in contrast, can bind with a bond which pertains to the soul itself and transcends the very heavens. Did [God] not give them all the powers of heaven? ‘Whose sins you shall forgive,’ he says, ‘they are forgiven them; whose sins you shall retain, they are retained.’ What greater power is there than this? The Father has given all judgment to the Son. And now I see the Son placing all this power in the hands of men [Matt. 10:40; John 20:21–23]. They are raised to this dignity as if they were already gathered up to heaven" (The Priesthood 3:5 [A.D. 387]). 

Ambrose of Milan
"For those to whom [the right of binding and loosing] has been given, it is plain that either both are allowed, or it is clear that neither is allowed. Both are allowed to the Church, neither is allowed to heresy. For this right has been granted to priests only" (Penance 1:1 [A.D. 388]). 

Jerome
"If the serpent, the devil, bites someone secretly, he infects that person with the venom of sin. And if the one who has been bitten keeps silence and does not do penance, and does not want to confess his wound . . . then his brother and his master, who have the word [of absolution] that will cure him, cannot very well assist him" (Commentary on Ecclesiastes10:11 [A.D. 388]). 

Augustine"When you shall have been baptized, keep to a good life in the commandments of God so that you may preserve your baptism to the very end. I do not tell you that you will live here without sin, but they are venial sins which this life is never without. Baptism was instituted for all sins. For light sins, without which we cannot live, prayer was instituted. . . . But do not commit those sins on account of which you would have to be separated from the body of Christ. Perish the thought! For those whom you see doing penance have committed crimes, either adultery or some other enormities. That is why they are doing penance. If their sins were light, daily prayer would suffice to blot them out. . . . In the Church, therefore, there are three ways in which sins are forgiven: in baptisms, in prayer, and in the greater humility of penance" (Sermon to Catechumens on the Creed 7:15, 8:16 [A.D. 395]). 

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