"Our earthly liturgies must be celebrations full of beauty and power: Feasts of the Father who created us—that is why the gifts of the earth play such a great part: the bread, the wine, oil and light, incense, sacred music, and splendid colors. Feasts of the Son who redeemed us—that is why we rejoice in our liberation, breathe deeply in listening to the Word, and are strengthened in eating the Eucharistic Gifts. Feasts of the Holy Spirit who lives in us—that is why there is a wealth of consolation, knowledge, courage, strength, and blessing that flows from these sacred assemblies." unknown source possibly YOUCAT Mal.1.11 For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name shall be great among the Gentiles; and in every place incense shall be offered unto my name, and a pure offering: for my name shall be great among the heathen, saith theLord of hosts.

Monday, July 30, 2012

my thoughts on judgment and assurance

 The Bible teaches that we will be judged:

Ecclesiastes 12: Because God will bring every act to judgment, everything which is hidden, whether it is good or evil.

Matt 12 : 3 And I say to you, that every careless word that men shall speak, they shall render account for it in the day of judgment. 37 For by your word you shall be justified, and by your words you shall be condemned

In Matt 25 when he speaks of separating the sheep from the goats how is he determining the separation? Who are those blessed of the Father? Jesus says 35 For I was hungry, and you gave Me something to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you invited me in; 36 naked and you clothed me...etc 40..Truly I say to you to the extent that you did it to one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it to Me. " Then he says who goes into the fire: 42 "for I was hungry; and you gave Me nothing to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me nothing to drink; ...etc 45 Then He will answer them, saying, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me. 46 And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

James states this too in 1:27 This is pure and undefiled religion in the sight of our God and Father, to visit orphans and widows in their distress, and to keep oneself unstained by the world.".

James 2:13 For judgment will be merciless to one who has shown no mercy; mercy triumphs over judgment"

Matt 7: 21 Not every one who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord, ' will enter the kingdom of heaven; but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven.
Matt 7:23 And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; Depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness. 24 Therefore every one who hears these words of Mine and acts upon them.....

(I will continue--Jesus says he is not judging us only by what we believe---our belief, if true, will have fruit and the fruit he describes in these passages. His judgment is true and if we don't have fruit, we need to question our salvation. We can not possibly know God and not love the brethren.


When we come to know God, who is love, it transforms us and we will love. If we don't love, I John says, then we don't know God. If we don't love our brethren who we see how can we say we love God whom we do not see? says John. John says he who practices sin is of the devil I Jn 3:8 people with porn addiction , for instance, would need to examine if they really are in the faith. Knowing God is trans-formative and if we are practicing lawlessness I John says we can not know that we are saved. I John gives the test we can run by our lives--these test he says he has given us that we may know that you have eternal life---the whole letter is written to show what true belief in the son of God is---some examples he gives 1:6 if we say that we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth 7 but if we walk in the light as He Himself is in the light, we have fellowship with one another and the blood of Jesus, His Son cleanses us from all sin, 8 if we say that we have no sin , we are deceiving ourselves, and the truth is not in us; 9 if we confess our sins , he is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sis and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

2:4 The one who says, I have come to know Him, and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him; 5 but whoever keeps His word, in him the love of God has truly been perfected. BY THIS we know that we are in Him: 6 the one who says he abides in Him ought himself to walk in the same manner as He walked.:

  •  He gives many more things , so yes if these things are true of us then we can be assured that we have a real belief in Christ and that we truly know God. But if these things are not true of us then we can not be assured that we have a saving belief in God. This is why he tells us to examine ourselves.


  •  .... we agree there is no condemnation to those who are in Christ and if you read on in the passage you quoted in Romans it says 8:4 in order that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace. 7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so; 8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God, 9However you are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit if indeed the the Spirit of God dwells in you.......13 for if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live, 14 for all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God......17 and if children, heirs, also , heirs of God and fellow-heirs with Christ, IF indeed we suffer with Him in order that we may be glorified with Him."


  • ,.So I continue--There is no condemnation if we are in the Spirit he says and if we are not living according to the flesh, but are putting to death the deeds of the body --and if we suffer with him. Purgatory is not a place of condemnation but a place of purification for sin that has not been confessed to God. However certain sins God says that if we are practicing them then we are not His. Gal 5:19 now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality, 20 idolatry, sorcery , enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions, 21 envyings, drunkenness, carousings, and things like these, of which I forewarn you just as I have forewarned you that those who practice such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God."

    So there it is again--if we are living fleshly lives and not walking in the Spirit--if those attributes he is describing are pervasive in our lives then he says we shall not inherit the kingdom of God.



  •  So in all of these passages (and I have only touched on a few) we see that how one lives is very important. Because we cannot be left unchanged if we truly know the holy, loving, all powerful God who has given us His Son. Yes , when we go to judgment Jesus says He judges us by these deeds and this is because these deeds are demonstrations and evidence that we have not just called him Lord and then lived our lives in the flesh instead of the Spirit. In Revelation he tells the Ephesian church that they need to repent because they left their first love. To Smyrna he says to be faithful UNTIL death and he will give them the crown of life (perseverance is essential), to Thyatira he asks that they repent of deeds or acts of immorality and in Sardis he says I have not found your deeds completed in the sight of My God...he tells them to repent and says those who have not soiled their garments will walk with Me in white; for they are worthy.

    I will end here--but if one says that deeds don't matter means you do not believe Jesus, Paul, James, John etc---

    One has to see from the Bible that when we really know God it is not just an intellectual assent, but a transformation that results in us walking in the Spirit, doing the deeds he commands, and having love. Without these things our faith is not a saving faith...not a true faith and we are fooling ourselves into thinking we know and love our Savior .

Sunday, July 29, 2012

Thoughts on Concupiscence/original sin and human nature

http://hebrewca.ipower.com/SoundFiles/S4L11StPaulonJustificationQ.mp3 about 14 or 15 minutes into this Feingold explains concupiscence especially relates it to end of Rom 7

This is all from a quote found here  http://www.calledtocommunion.com/2012/07/a-reply-to-r-c-sproul-regarding-the-catholic-doctrines-of-original-sin-and-free-will/   comment 41
Before the fall, did Adam and Eve have concupiscence (lust of the fleash, lust of the eyes, pride of life) as part of human nature?
Before the fall, Adam and Eve did not have concupiscence, because they had the preternatural gifts. But they had in their human nature a ‘potency’ to concupiscence through sin and the loss of the preternatural gifts. This potency was actualized when they sinned, and lost the preternatural gifts.
how would you explain Trent’s teaching that concupiscence is “of sin”, that is, is an effect of sin? How can there be an effect if the cause doesn’t exist?
The cause was their sin, by which they forfeited the preternatural gifts, and thereby reduced themselves to a condition of concupiscence.
how would you explain Feingold’s definition of original sin as the removal of gifts?
Original sin in its essence is the absence of sanctifying grace, which is a supernatural gift (not a preternatural gift). Original sin is not the same thing as concupiscence.
Yet, if Adam and Eve contracted something, namely concupiscence, after the fall that they didn’t have before it, then original sin is, partly, some corruption (I realize concupiscence is not sin in itself) that is in human nature;.
You’re interchanging the terms ‘concupiscence’ and ‘original sin.’ Those two are not the same. By their sin Adam and Eve came into a condition of original sin and concupiscence. But it does not follow that either original sin or concupiscence is a corruption that is in human nature. A corruption is a corruption of something, from a good or better state to a bad or worse state. There was no corruption in man prior to the fall. Even when Adam and Eve sinned, human nature itself remained intact. They didn’t go from 100% human to 60% human. They remained 100% human. The loss of sanctifying grace and the preternatural gifts exposed the weakness of human nature without those gifts. But that weakness is not a corruption of human nature. Sanctifying grace and the preternatural gifts are not intrinsic to human nature, because we are neither God nor angels.
If, after the fall, Adam and Eve were left with human nature minus the gifts, then concupiscence would have been part of human nature before the fall because it certainly is part of human nature after the fall.
The potency to concupiscence was present before the fall, but not concupiscence itself.
All this is explained in more detail in “Lawrence Feingold on Original Justice and Original Sin,” especially the Q&A session following that lecture. If you want to ask a follow-up question on this subject, I suggest that you do so in the combox there.

comments 42, 43:



more on concupiscence
Would you please explain the difference between the concupiscible nature (which I believe Adam and Eve had before the fall as part of human nature) and concupiscence, which they had after the fall? (from comment42)
answer from comment 43
I wouldn’t use the term ‘concuspiscible nature,’ because concupiscence is not essential to human nature, and there wasn’t a second nature (i.e. ‘concupiscible nature’) our first parents had (either before or after the fall) in addition to human nature. Before the fall they had human nature, as well as the preternatural gifts and the supernatural gifts. Human nature contains formally four powers, among which are the rational appetite, and the concupiscible appetite (each of which are in themselves good). (SeeAquinas and Trent: Part 3.) The rational appetite is intrinsically ordered to the good as such, but the concupiscible appetite is not intrinsically ordered tothegood as such, but to the good under a limited aspect, namely to concupiscible goods. Otherwise nothing would differentiate the concupiscible appetite from the rational appetite.
The preternatural gift of integrity by which the concupiscible appetite was ordered to the rational appetite, and thus extrinsically ordered to the good, was part of the divinely established order. Without that preternatural gift of integrity, the concupiscible appetite is not inherently ordered to the good, but must be mastered and trained so that the virtue of temperance develops in it. As I wrote in “Michael Horton on Terrence Malick’s “Tree of Life,”
Why is integrity not intrinsic to human nature? Because man is both body and soul, and matter by its nature cannot be intrinsically ordered to the good as such, as reason is. That inability is not a defect in matter; it is merely a natural limitation of matter. For example, arrows are not naturally ordered to their target, but this is not a defect or imperfection in arrows. Similarly, not being the Creator is not a defect or imperfection in creatures; it is a limitation that necessarily accompanies being a creature. So likewise, not being intrinsically ordered to the good as such is not a defect or imperfection in matter; it is merely an intrinsic limitation of matter. And therefore the need for the preternatural gift of integrity in order for there to be no concupiscence, is not an indication that human nature is imperfect or flawed.
So the difference between human nature (which they had before the fall) and concupiscence (which they had only after the fall) is that human nature is that by which they were human [both before and after the fall] whereas concupiscence is the disorder between the powers of the soul, resulting from the loss of the preternatural gift of integrity through sin. Prior to the fall, this disorder [i.e. concupiscence] was not present, because of the presence of the preternatural gift of integrity. But the potential for this disorder was present, both on account of human nature, and on account of their capacity by the power of free choice to lose through sin the preternatural gift of integrity. After the fall, this disorder was present, because the preternatural gift of integrity by which the concupiscible appetite had been extrinsically ordered to the rational appetite, was lost.

and here in comment     19  http://www.calledtocommunion.com/2010/03/aquinas-and-trent-part-7/#comment-48437

 The term ‘concupiscence’ has been used by some earlier writers in a broader, looser sense, to refer to the condition of original sin. When speaking more precisely we see that there are two aspects of the condition of original sin. One aspect is the absence of sanctifying grace and agape. The other aspect is the presence of disordered lower appetites, which draw us away from the good proposed by reason, and entice us to choose some evil. The latter [i.e. the disordered lower appetites] is concupiscence proper, but sometimes earlier writers used the term ‘concupiscence’ loosely to refer to both aspects, without distinguishing them, especially when they are present together in the unbaptized infant. By itself concupiscence proper is guiltless. But the absence of sanctifying grace in an infant is not guiltless, not because the infant lacking sanctifying grace committed an actual sin, but because no one can enter into eternal life without sanctifying grace and agape. Moreover, for all those who have attained the age of reason, and who do not have sanctifying grace and agape, concupiscence is damnable though not in itself, but inasmuch as (according to St. Augustine) without such grace the temptations arising from concupiscence and leading to mortal sin are not ultimately resistible. As St. Augustine argued against the Pelagians, without sanctifying grace, the man with concupiscence will commit mortal sin. And in that sense, concupiscence is damnable, not in itself, but on account of its inevitable fruit in the man lacking sanctifying grace and agape.
So when St. Augustine says that “the old guiltiness of concupiscence is put away by the washing of baptism,” he is speaking of concupiscence in this broader sense, as it is present [accompanied by original sin] in the unbaptized person, and particularly the unbaptized infant. The “guiltiness” of concupiscence (in this broader sense of the term ‘concupiscence’) is not the disordered lower appetites, but the absence of sanctifying grace and agape. Now consider Davenant’s statement:
He who says that the guilt of original indwelling concupiscence, and all its fruits of actual concupiscence are put away from the regenerate, confesses that the nature of them is damnable in itself. For nothing needs remission but what is deserving of condemnation.
Here is Davenant’s argument:
(1) Nothing needs remission but what is deserving of condemnation.
(2) The guilt of original indwelling concupiscence is put away from the regenerate through baptism
(3) God does nothing superfluous.
Therefore:
(4) The guilt of original indwelling concupiscence needs remission. [from (2), (3)]
Therefore:
(5) Concupiscence is in itself damnable. [from (1), (4)]
The argument is sound. The problem is that the term ‘concupiscence’ is being used here in its looser sense, not in its more precise sense. So the guilt being referred to is that of original sin (i.e. the absence of sanctifying grace and agape). The doctrine as defined by Trent (Session 5), however, is using the term ‘concupiscence’ in its more precise sense, to refer only to disordered lower appetites. So to infer from this argument (presented by Davenant) that Trent contradicts St. Augustine is to commit the fallacy of equivocation. As we are examining the texts we have to keep in mind that the term has both a broader and more precise sense, and ask ourselves in each case which sense of the term is being used. As I showed in comment #5 above, St. Augustine himself shows in a number of other places that concupiscence proper is not sin, and in this way shows the basis for the distinction between the more precise sense of the term and its looser sense as he applies it to the unbaptized.

from an article here: http://principiumunitatis.blogspot.com/2009/02/aquinas-on-instant-and-progressive.html

By grace our will is turned back to God and away from sin, and so rectitude of order is restored between the highest power of our soul and God. (ST I-II Q.113 a.8) But the rectitude of order between reason and the inferior powers of the soul is not restored instantly by grace. This remaining disorder is calledconcupiscence, and it remains after our baptism, for the sake of our participation in overcoming it, for our humility and so to remind us that our true home lies in the life to come. (ST III Q.69 a.3) Likewise, the rectitude of order between the soul and the body is not restored instantly by grace. This is why our bodies are subject to sickness, and why bodily death remains. (For the sake of simplicity I am not here addressing the topic of infused moral virtues -- cf. ST I-II Q.63 a.3.)

and from part of comment 6 here: http://www.calledtocommunion.com/2011/10/protestant-objections-to-the-catholic-doctrines-of-original-justice-and-original-sin/

Concupiscence is the result of the loss of the preternatural gift of integrity. So concupiscence is a natural condition of man in a state of pure (i.e. mere) nature, just as mortality and passibility are the natural condition of man in a state of pure nature. Man is not by nature incapable of suffering, or incapable of dying. And man by his nature alone does not have the integrity by which concupiscence is absent. I explained why this is, in the body of the post above; see the section in which I respond to Charles Hodge’s arguments.

and from comment 7 of the same link:


Natalia writes: … if all we lost in the Fall was supernatural grace and the gift of integrity (right?), leaving our natures intact, then where did concupiscence come from?
Natalia, that is a really good question. Bryan Cross gave an answer to that question in his personal blogPrincipium Unitatis that really helped me:
Why Did Adam Originally Need Grace?
Aquinas … explains that man was made by God in such a way that man’s reason was subject to God, his lower powers were perfectly subject to his reason, and his body also was perfectly subject to his soul. But the first subjection was the cause of the latter two subjections … Aquinas says,
“Now it is clear that such a subjection of the body to the soul and of the lower powers to reason, was not from nature; otherwise it would have remained after sin. … Hence it is clear that also the primitive subjection by virtue of which reason was subject to God, was not a merely natural gift, but a supernatural endowment of grace; for it is not possible that the effect should be of greater efficiency than the cause. …”
Here is Aquinas’s argument. The subjection of Adam’s body to his soul and of the lower powers to his reason was an effect of the subjection of his reason to God. But it is not possible that the effect should exceed the cause. And since the subjection of the body to the soul and of the lower powers to reason was not from nature [for otherwise these two subjections would have remained after Adam's sin], it follows that the subjection of Adam’s reason to God was also not a merely natural gift but was a supernatural endowment of grace. … Aquinas concludes that if the loss of grace dissolved the obedience of the flesh to the soul, the inferior powers must have been subject to the soul through grace existing in them.
Bryan writes “the subjection of the body to the soul and of the lower powers to reason was not from nature” – that is, without supernatural grace, man’s sensual appetites are not subject to man’s natural reason. To be free from concupiscence, it would follow from the above that man needs supernatural grace. Which is true, but it is not that simple because the man or woman that is baptized receives supernatural grace, and yet he or she is not set free from their struggle with concupiscence:
Catechism of the Catholic Church
2515 Etymologically, “concupiscence” can refer to any intense form of human desire. Christian theology has given it a particular meaning: the movement of the sensitive appetite contrary to the operation of the human reason. The apostle St. Paul identifies it with the rebellion of the “flesh” against the “spirit.” Concupiscence stems from the disobedience of the first sin. It unsettles man’s moral faculties and, without being in itself an offense, inclines man to commit sins.
2516 Because man is a composite being, spirit and body, there already exists a certain tension in him; a certain struggle of tendencies between “spirit” and “flesh” develops. But in fact this struggle belongs to the heritage of sin. It is a consequence of sin and at the same time a confirmation of it.
2520 Baptism confers on its recipient the grace of purification from all sins. But the baptized must continue to struggle against concupiscence of the flesh and disordered desires. With God’s grace he will prevail …
1263 By Baptism all sins are forgiven, original sin and all personal sins, as well as all punishment for sin. In those who have been reborn nothing remains that would impede their entry into the Kingdom of God, neither Adam’s sin, nor personal sin, nor the consequences of sin, the gravest of which is separation from God.
1264 Yet certain temporal consequences of sin remain in the baptized, such as suffering, illness, death, and such frailties inherent in life as weaknesses of character, and so on, as well as an inclination to sin that Tradition callsconcupiscence …
Adam’s personal sin has temporal consequences for his progeny. Because of Adam’s personal sin, his descendents are not born into a state of original justice, instead, we have been born into a fallen state of being where we have inherited the temporal consequences of Adam’s personal sin – “suffering, illness, death, and such frailties inherent in life as weaknesses of character, and so on, as well as an inclination to sin that Tradition calls concupiscence”, the loss of perfect holy innocence, the loss of the preternatural gifts, and above all, the loss of sanctifying grace.
So why doesn’t the supernatural grace received by the Sacrament of Baptism free us from concupiscence? It does not do that because the grace of Baptism brings us to a state of initial justification, which is a different state of being than that which Adam enjoyed in the state of original justice. To be brought back to a state of holy innocence where one is free from concupiscence, the baptized man or woman needs an increase in sanctifying grace to bring about the final fruits of the first and second conversion:
Catechism of the Catholic Church
THE CONVERSION OF THE BAPTIZED
1427 Jesus calls to conversion. This call is an essential part of the proclamation of the kingdom: “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent, and believe in the gospel.” In the Church’s preaching this call is addressed first to those who do not yet know Christ and his Gospel. Also, Baptism is the principal place for the first and fundamental conversion. It is by faith in the Gospel and by Baptism that one renounces evil and gains salvation, that is, the forgiveness of all sins and the gift of new life.
1428 Christ’s call to conversion continues to resound in the lives of Christians. Thissecond conversion is an uninterrupted task for the whole Church who, “clasping sinners to her bosom, [is] at once holy and always in need of purification, [and] follows constantly the path of penance and renewal.” This endeavor of conversion is not just a human work. It is the movement of a “contrite heart,” drawn and moved by grace to respond to the merciful love of God who loved us first.

from comment 19 http://www.calledtocommunion.com/2011/10/protestant-objections-to-the-catholic-doctrines-of-original-justice-and-original-sin/

As explained in “Nature, Grace, and Man’s Supernatural End: Feingold, Kline, and Clark” and “Lawrence Feingold on Original Justice and Original Sin,” according to a Catholic anthropology, human nature is distinguished from the four preternatural gifts (i.e. integrity, infused knowledge, impassibility, and immortality), and from the supernatural gifts of faith, hope, agape and sanctifying grace. When Adam sinned, he retained human nature intact, but he lost all four preternatural gifts, and he lost all the supernatural gifts. Because he lost the supernatural gifts, he was without the life of God, and dead in sin, living for himself in the curved-inwardness of Godless narcissism. Because he lost the preternatural gift of integrity, he acquired the disorder of concupiscence. Because he lost the preternatural gift of infused knowledge, he acquired the condition of ignorance. Because he lost the preternatural gift of impassibility, he became subject to suffering. And because he lost the preternatural gift of immortality he became subject to death. All his offspring likewise were born in this condition, i.e. with human nature intact, but without these preternatural and supernatural gifts. To be conceived and born without the supernatural gifts is to be conceived and born in what is called “original sin.”

 Protestant anthropology does not distinguish between human nature, preternatural gifts, and supernatural gifts. Protestant anthropology distinguishes only between original human nature (which is righteous), and fallen human nature which is disposed to sin. According to Protestant anthropology, Adam and Eve were created with original human nature, but when they freely sinned, their nature fell. So all their children are born with fallen human nature, which is intrinsically subject to disordered desires, to ignorance, suffering and death. Because Adam and Eve lost their created nature, they were a different kind of creature before their fall, than they were after their fall. When they sinned, they changed species, not necessarily by a change in their DNA, but because of the change in their nature, i.e. the kind of being they were. What we call ‘human’ is what Adam and Eve became only after the fall; before the fall they were a higher kind of being, because they had a higher nature than the nature we now have.
Given Protestant anthropology, and given the patristic principle that what is not assumed is not redeemed, it is not difficult to see the motivation for claiming that Jesus must have assumed a fallen human nature, for if He assumed only an original human nature, he would have not have assumed ourfallen nature, but only that of the original pre-fall couple who, while they had that pristine nature did not [according to Protestant theology] need saving. (See “Pelagian Westminster?“) Moreover, if one does not distinguish between human nature and the preternatural gifts, then since we see clearly in Scripture that Jesus suffered and died, then it will seem that Jesus must have possessed a fallen human nature. At His resurrection He changed species, back to the original human nature of Adam. Salvation for us also will, at our glorification/resurrection, involve a species change, back to Adam’s original nature. If Jesus came “in the likeness of sinful flesh,” and suffered the curse from Genesis 3, and our only two options to choose from are Adam’s “original human nature” or Adam’s “fallen human nature,” then Jesus must have had Adam’s “fallen human nature.” And if Jesus received His humanity from Mary, then it is difficult to see how He could have received “original human nature” from Mary, unless she was immaculately conceived and never sinned (at least did not sin until after Jesus was conceived); that’s not really an option for Protestants. Either she was immaculately conceived or at the moment of Jesus’s conception, God took Mary’s [fallen] human nature and transformed it to a different nature, namely, Adam’s original human nature. But then Jesus’s human nature would have been a different created species than was Mary’s. And that runs against the meaning of Theotokos, which is not that Jesus merely used the womb of the Virgin, but that He took His flesh from her, and was truly her Son, bone of her bones, and flesh of her flesh, homousious with her according to His humanity, and homousious with God the Father according to His divinity. (See the Athanasian Creed, which says that as man He was born of the substance of His mother (et homo est ex substantia matris in saeculo natus.)
In the Catholic understanding there is no ‘fallen human nature.’ God did not make two species of human. There is either human nature accompanied by preternatural and/or supernatural gifts, and human nature unaccompanied by preternatural and/or supernatural gifts. Every human being who has ever lived has had the same human nature possessed by Adam before Adam’s fall. Otherwise we wouldn’t all be human, because either the pre-fall Adam wouldn’t be human, or the post-fall Adam wouldn’t be human. Jesus was conceived having two of the preternatural gifts (i.e. integrity and infused knowledge), but He purposefully gave up the other two preternatural gifts (i.e. impassibility and immortality), because He came into the world to suffer and die, as I explained in comment #12 above. This is the meaning of the verse teaching that Jesus came in the likeness of sinful flesh. By forgoing the preternatural gifts of impassibility and immortality, He made Himself subject to the suffering and death that was the result of the curse of Genesis 3, yet without sinning or being subject to the concupiscence resulting from original sin. He was conceived with the supernatural gifts (excepting faith and hope, because already He possessed the beatific vision), and thus without original sin. So the Catholic answer to the question “Did Jesus Assume a Fallen Human Nature?” is “It depends on what one means by “fallen human nature.” If one means a lower nature than that possessed by the pre-fall Adam, then no, because there is no such thing. And if one means “a human nature having concupiscence,” then no. Jesus did not have concupiscence, because he never had original sin. But if one means “a human nature subject to suffering and death,” then yes, not because He received a different human nature than that had by the pre-fall Adam and Eve, but because He chose not to receive the preternatural gifts of impassibility and immortality, so that He could fulfill the mission for which He came into the world, to suffer and die for our salvation.
This position does not suffer from the problems I described above. Everything we are in our human nature, Christ assumed. For example, He did not have to forgo the preternatural gift of integrity in order to become fully human. Adam prior to his fall was not less human than Adam after his fall. Moreover, on this anthropology, Christ’s passibility and mortality do not entail that He also possessed concupiscence, since these are each conditions due to the absence of preternatural gifts, not essential properties of a singular fallen human nature. Nor do His passibility and mortality indicate that He was internally at enmity with God, since the latter is the result of the absence of the supernatural gift ofagape, not something intrinsic to a particular kind of human nature that Christ would have had to assume in order to redeem us. And given Catholic anthropology, Jesus could receive from Mary the same human nature she had received from Adam, since there is only one human nature. What is known as “the sinful nature” is not a second human nature, but rather concupiscience, i.e. the absence of the preternatural gift of integrity. This “sin nature” is not redeemed and retained in the saints in heaven; it is removed, by the restoration of the preternatural gift of integrity. Salvation does not involve becoming a different species of human, but becoming a partaker of the divine nature, through the infusion of the supernatural gifts of sanctifying grace and agape, and at Christ’s return, the restoration of all the preternatural gifts.

and from Father John Harden http://www.readability.com/read?url=http%3A//www.therealpresence.org/archives/God/God_013.htm  :



The gift of integrity is equivalent to exemption from concupiscence. It is called "integrity" because it effected a harmonious relation between flesh and spirit by completely subordinating man's lower passions to his reason.
This integrity, it should be noted, did not consist in lacking the natural power to desire for sensible or spiritual bona, nor was it a lack of activity of this power, since all of these belong to the perfection of human nature. Rather it was the absence of certain kinds of acts of the appetitive faculty, namely those which anticipate or go before (praevertunt) the operations of reason and will and tend to continue in opposition to the same.
Stated positively, integrity consisted in the perfect subjection of the concupiscible and irascible appetitive powers to the dictates of reason and free will. As a consequence the will had not only indirect (diplomatic) but also direct (despotic) dominion over the appetite.
Two kinds of concupiscence should be distinguished, the one dogmatic and the other moral. In a dogmatic sense, concupiscence is the appetite - primarily sensitive and actual, and secondarily spiritual and habitual - in so far as its movement precedes the deliberation and dictate of reason and tends to endure in spite of the command of the will. In a moral sense, concupiscence is the appetite - again primarily sensitive and actual, and secondarily spiritual and habitual - in so far as 1) its acts not only precede reason and perdure in spite of the will, but 2) they tend to moral evil. Another name for the latter is inordinate or prava concupiscence.
Our concern in the thesis is with concupiscence in the dogmatic sense, and integrity as immunity from this kind of appetitive drive.
In order, further to clarify Adam's gift of integrity, we may say that he was perfectly sound, entire and integral, in the sense that hedid not experience within himself thatdivision which mankind now understands so well. Our own indeliberate tendencies, we know, often oppose themselves to what we decide or want to do. The life of a man who wants to do well and avoid evil is literally a conflict, more or less violent, between reason which sees and approves the good and wants fewer tendencies. This conflict is variously described as a tension between spirit and flesh, between the interior and exterior man, or simply between soul and body. But in our first parents there was no such internal discord. Their integrity was "the absence of any resistance from their spontaneous tendencies, notably the sense appetite, in the performance of good or avoidance of evil." In a word it was a perfect dominion of animal and spiritual passion."

and here http://www.calledtocommunion.com/2010/03/aquinas-and-trent-part-7/ :

 Concupiscence comes from sin, and it inclines to sin. But it itself is not sin, because sin requires the use of the will, and the motions of concupiscence are not willed.45 We discussed this in Aquinas and Trent: Part 2. Nor is concupiscence original sin. Baptism removes original sin, by giving the person sanctifying grace. But baptism does not remove concupiscence. Christ leaves us with concupiscence so that we, by manfully resisting it, may merit a greater reward. The early Protestants, however, believed that concupiscence was itself sin. And therefore, finding concupiscence in themselves daily, even after baptism, and not recognizing  the mortal-venial distinction, they concluded that justification does not depend upon the internal condition of the sinner, but upon a forensic declaration. Because they [wrongly] believed that concupiscence was sin, and because they [rightly] believed that concupiscence remained after baptism, they concluded that after baptism there remains in us something that God hates, and for that reason were drawn toward to the notion of simul iustus et peccator.

end of quote 

but it gets a bit tricky!  here http://www.calledtocommunion.com/2009/03/aquinas-and-trent-part-2/


Accordingly the privation of original justice, whereby the will was made subject to God, is the formal element in original sin; while every other disorder of the soul’s powers, is a kind of material element in respect of original sin. Now the inordinateness of the other powers of the soul consists chiefly in their turning inordinately to mutable good; which inordinateness may be called by the general name of concupiscence. Hence original sin is concupiscence, materially, but privation of original justice, formally.
Here Aquinas draws his conclusions. The form of original sin is the privation of original justice, whereby the will was made subject to God. The matter of original sin is the other disorders of the souls’ powers, namely, the disordered inclinations of the soul’s lower powers. But the name given to the inordinateness of the lower powers of the soul is concupiscence. Therefore, formally original sin is the privation of original justice, but materially original sin is concupiscence. The importance of this conclusion will be seen in Calvin’s response to the fifth paragraph of the Fifth Session of the Council of Trent.

from the Catholic/Lutheran  Joint Declaration http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/chrstuni/documents/rc_pc_chrstuni_doc_31101999_cath-luth-joint-declaration_en.html  :

30.Catholics hold that the grace of Jesus Christ imparted in baptism takes away all that is sin "in the proper sense" and that is "worthy of damnation" (Rom 8:1).[16] There does, however, remain in the person an inclination (concupiscence) which comes from sin and presses toward sin. Since, according to Catholic conviction, human sins always involve a personal element and since this element is lacking in this inclination, Catholics do not see this inclination as sin in an authentic sense. They do not thereby deny that this inclination does not correspond to God's original design for humanity and that it is objectively in contradiction to God and remains one's enemy in lifelong struggle. Grateful for deliverance by Christ, they underscore that this inclination in contradiction to God does not merit the punishment of eternal death[17] and does not separate the justified person from God. But when individuals voluntarily separate themselves from God, it is not enough to return to observing the commandments, for they must receive pardon and peace in the Sacrament of Reconciliation through the word of forgiveness imparted to them in virtue of God's reconciling work in Christ. [See Sources for section 4.4].

see also comment 54 here http://www.calledtocommunion.com/2010/03/aquinas-and-trent-part-7/#comment-61329
from comment 477 herehttp://www.calledtocommunion.com/2012/08/imputation-and-paradigms-a-reply-to-nicholas-batzig/#comment-120328 Concupiscence, in the technical sense (as it is used at Trent) is not in the will. The internal sins Jesus condemns, such as hatred, anger, lust, are in the will. But that’s a topic for a different thread.

Friday, July 27, 2012

no salvation outside the church/ meaning

http://www.calledtocommunion.com/2011/10/vandrunen-on-catholic-inclusivity-and-change/  This is a good explanation of "In fact, over the centuries the Church carefully has developed a nuanced doctrine of salvation for those not materially united to her"

http://www.catholic.com/magazine/articles/what-no-salvation-outside-the-church-means

also from a comment from Christopher Lake found in comment 42 here: http://www.calledtocommunion.com/2012/10/reformation-day-2012-remembrance-and-reconciliation/#comment-39309   is the below long quote


"The official position of the Catholic Church, in her Catechism, in regard to Protestants and all other non-Catholics, is thus (and, in the interest of charity and a productive discussion, I ask you, respectfully, to please read all of it, carefully, before jumping to any certain conclusions):
“Outside the Church there is no salvation”
846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers?335 Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:
Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.336
How many people refuse to enter into, or remain in, the Catholic Church, *while knowing* the Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ? God knows. I certainly don’t. For those people though, the Church teaches that unless they repent of their schism, they cannot be saved.
For those people who have questions about the claims of the Catholic Church about herself and her teachings in Scripture and Tradition, the very seriousness *of those claims* would imply that said people should devote serious time and energy, to the extent that they are able, to answering those questions. If one is truly, invincibly ignorant, concerning the claims of the Church and the evidence for them, then one is much less culpable for rejecting the Church.
In much of the world today though, the evidence for the claims of the Catholic Church is readily available. Many factors may contribute to a person not seeking out, and not seriously examining, that evidence. Again, God knows hearts, and I don’t. If one has access to the internet though, including multiple translations of Scripture, and the Catechism of the Catholic Church, and many faithful Catholic websites though, including this one, with its many, many thoughtful articles and arguments, it is more difficult for one to claim to be in a position of invincible ignorance about the Catholic Church– certainly more difficult, say, than for certain earlier generations of Protestants who, due to geography alone, may have had little to no contact with Catholicism and Catholics at all.
One last thought for this comment– you might find this short article to be interesting, in terms of an early Catholic view of non-Catholic Christians. It shows that that even in the earlier years, the Church’s approach was not always *only* polemical:http://www.calledtocommunion.com/2010/07/st-augustine-on-non-catholic-christians-as-brothers/"

and from the same CL from comment 43

I typed the above reply (#4o) to you very early in the morning. There were a few typos, but I hope that I conveyed that the Church has *not* changed her *official teaching* on Protestantism. Within the Church, over the centuries since the Reformation, there has been a development in understanding, in terms of degrees of *individual culpability*, from one person to another, for leaving or remaining outside of the Catholic Church, but the official teaching of the Church on Protestantism, itself, has not changed.

also from comment 559 http://www.calledtocommunion.com/2013/03/jason-stellman-tells-his-conversion-story/
 Those are points you seem disposed to agree with. Let’s examine them.
The first is this:
For Leo, it was fundamental that “those who refuse to enter the perfect society or leave it are separated forever from life eternal.” In the Decree on Ecumenism (1964), on the other hand, heretics and schismatics have become “separated brethren.”
The quotations are accurate, but the giveaway is Lacey’s little phrase ‘on the other hand’. He’s implying that Leo’s doctrine, as expressed in his quoted statement, is incompatible with that of Unitatis Redintegratio. But it is not. (Lacey may have explicitly argued elsewhere in his book that they are mutually incompatible, but as I’ve haven’t read the book, I can’t speak to that.)
Consider this statement from Lumen Gentium §14:
“Whosoever, therefore, knowing (Latin: non ignorantes); literally: ‘not ignorant’) that the Catholic Church was made necessary by Christ, would refuse to enter or to remain in it, could not be saved.”
Now the main difference between Leo’s statement and LG’s is the latter’s addition of the phrase ‘knowing that (or, more precisely: ‘not ignorant that’, which is a canonical term of art) the Catholic Church was made necessary by Christ’. But that was no mere innovation of Vatican II. Leo’s predecessor, Pius IX, had said something logically equivalent to what UR later said when he asserted:
Outside of the Church, nobody can hope for life or salvation unless he is excused through ignorance beyond his control. (Singulari Quidem §7 [1856]).
Given the bracketing magisterial context, then, Leo’s language should be understood with the implicit qualification that his predecessor had made explicit and the later Vatican council would also made explicit. Nor can it be argued that Pius IX himself was a mere innovator. As Tom Brown showed in the article Bryan references in #556:
In fact, over the centuries the Church carefully has developed a nuanced doctrine of salvation for those not materially united to her. This process has been so cautious because of the weighty concern of calling all sinners to the ordinary means of grace through formal union with the Church, on the one hand, and the similarly weighty concern of avoiding the appearance of delimiting God’s ability to extend grace and salvation through extraordinary means, on the other. It is this process which has led the Church to its reflection on salvation for those who are invincibly ignorant…
There is no logical contradiction, therefore, between Leo’s ecclesiology and Vatican II’s. The Council did, to be sure, drop the old language describing the Church as a “perfect society.” There was a very good reason for that. Although there’s a technical sense in which the phrase conveys a truth–namely, that the divine constitution or “order” of the Church is exactly as God wills it to be, in terms of her hierarchy and sacraments–the phrase itself had taken on unfortunate connotations: the idea that there’s nothing in the Church that could possibly need reforming, which is absurd. So the Council dropped such language. But it did not repudiate the associated doctrine.
The other interpretive move Lacey makes that I reject is this:
Theologically speaking, while Dulles holds that all grace is mediated through the one, triune God, he does not insist, as Leo felt he had to do, that is it mediated exclusively through the one true church. The post conciliar church reads history and culture differently from the way the Leonine church read them.
While it is true, to some extent, that “the post-conciliar church reads history and culture differently from the way the Leonine church read them,” that does not mean there are two churches with incompatible theologies. Nor did the late Cardinal Dulles–whom Lacey quotes and with whose body of work I’m familiar–think it did mean that. I fully agree with what Lacey quotes Dulles as saying, which comes from an article that he published in First Things, and that I read when it was published. But it does not follow from what Dulles wrote that grace is not “mediated exclusively through the one true church.” That’s because it does not logically follow, from the affirmation that grace is exclusively mediated through the Church, that all grace is offered to and received by people exclusively through their formal membership in the Church. All that follows is that whatever grace is offered and received without formal membership in the Church is so offered and received by virtue of “His Body, which is the Church as the universal sacrament of salvation” (LG §48).
I see this discussion circling back to our original theme: the clash of the hermeneutic of discontinuity (HoD) with the hermeneutic of continuity (HoC). Like the dissident Catholic traditionalists, progressives such as Lacey subscribe to HoD. The difference between them is that the trads prefer the old Church from which the new Church is taken to be a radical break, whereas the progs prefer the new Church, precisely as such a radical break. Thus the “discontinuants”–to borrow a term from Fr. Richard John Neuhaus–are all about division: they pit the new Church against the old, and then divide against each other about which of the two churches is best. Yet from the standpoint of the HoC–of which most of this comment is an example–the only significant shift of theological outlook between the pre- and post-conciliar Church is that the latter dropped the presumption, characteristic of Catholic thought for centuries, that those who know about Catholicism but choose not to become Catholic are culpable for that choice. That is a significant change, to be sure. But it is not an instance of doctrinal discontinuity. It’s an organic development of doctrine driven by a shift in pastoral outlook.

Thus, in the wake of that shift and the accompanying ecumenism, the HoC fosters unity both within and outside the Catholic Church. That’s the kind of hermeneutic the previous two popes urged on Catholic thinkers. That’s why I’m confident that, when I present the CIP and use it to defend the coherence of Catholic ecclesiology before and after Vatican II, I am only doing what the Magisterium urges people like me to do–which is unlike what people such as Lacey do.
end

ANd a good article here with  explanation: http://www.mark-shea.com/unam.html

also another article which is not as good answers here this way http://www.ewtn.com/vexperts/showmessage_print.asp?number=335477&language=en

Answer by Dr. William Carroll on 11-04-2001:
This was a widespread misunderstanding of the Church's teaching, but the Church did not specifically teach this. The truth has now been clarified in "Dominus Jesus." Long before Vatican II, the Church taught that souls could be saved who had not been practicing members of it because of "invincible ignorance." I well remember the great Catholic apologist Msgr. Ronald Knox teaching this in some of his books written in the early 20th century. The oft-quoted and poorly drafted bull UNAM SANCTAM did not consider the question of people outside Europe who had never heard of Christ, or those in the state of invincible ignorance, which almost no one was in during the time of this bull in Europe. No one knows, or ever knew whether persons who had publicly rejected the Church, such as Jews or heretics, might have privately repented of their error at the last moment. - Dr. Carroll
This article and comments explain more especially concerning the council of Florence teachings: http://www.calledtocommunion.com/2011/10/vandrunen-on-catholic-inclusivity-and-change/

from comment 14
JJS you said:
and the later position is, “Some people can gain eternal life even if not joined to the Catholic Church”. The Catholic Church has NEVER taught that there can be salvation outside of the Church. That would be like saying that there can be salvation outside of Christ. She has clarified her position in that a person can be saved without necessarily being physically bound to the Church. Although they must be spiritually bound to Jesus at the very least and if they are then they are members of His body the Church. If anyone knowingly refuses to be bound to the Church after determining that they must join the Catholic Church they refuse the salvation of Christ. It has always been that way and it still is.


from comment 21
In order rightly to understand the statement in the Council of Florence, it is essential to see clearly what it is not intending to do. It is not intending to deny the possibility of salvation for those who die as Catechumens, or those who die as martyrs for Christ prior to receiving baptism. To read the Council of Florence that way would be to make the Council itself a dissenting Council. So, that entails that the statement by the Council of Florence regarding who “cannot become participants in eternal life” is necessarily implicitly qualified. Those who don’t recognize that implicit qualification, and treat it as intending to exclude absolutely from heaven any who die not in full communion with the Church are misreading the document. They are trying to interpret it in a vacuum, rather than as informed by all that came before it in the teaching and practice of the Church. (See the ad in #14 for an illustration of what it looks like to [mis]interpret something without knowing the history behind it.)

The Council of Florence is not teaching that anyone who dies not in full communion with the Church is damned. Rather, it is teaching that what has been revealed to the Church by Christ through the Apostles to be preached to all men is the necessity to enter and “live within” the Church for salvation, just as the Church teaches that what has been revealed by Christ through the Apostles is that baptism is necessary for all men for salvation. That revelation is neither identical to nor entails the claim that anyone who dies prior to receiving baptism is damned. Likewise, the necessity of entering into and remaining in full communion with the Church for salvation is neither identical to nor entails that all who die apart from full communion with the Church are damned. And this shows that the teaching by the Council of Florence is referring to persons who hear of this truth concerning Christ and baptism and His Church, and who reject it. It is not making any statement about the possibility of salvation for those who hear it and accept it, but die before receiving baptism and thus die before being received into full communion. And for that reason, it is likewise not making any statement about the possibility of salvation for those who die in invincible ignorance. But the possibility of salvation for Protestants (as separated brethren) only extends to those who remain in invincible ignorance concerning the identity of the Catholic Church as the Church Christ founded, and of the necessity of entering into and remaining in full communion with Christ’s Church for salvation. The statement in the Catechism “Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it” (CCC 846) is exactly the essence of what the Council of Florence taught. In 1567, the Church condemned the following error of Baius: “Purely negative infidelity in those among whom Christ has not been preached, is a sin.” (Denz. 1068)
from comment 36:

That is exactly right, and it would be a huge mistake to listen to the erroneous opinions of Fr. Feeney to understand what the Magisterium of the Catholic Church teaches about the doctrine “there is no salvation outside the Church” (extra Ecclesiam nulla salus or EENS for short).
In 1949, Fr. Feeney was formally censored for his mistaken opinions about the Church’s doctrine concerning EENS. See the Letter of the Holy Office to the Archbishop of Boston: Denzinger 3869-72. This document can be read here:
What error did Fr. Feeney teach in regards to EENS doctrine? Fr. Feeney taught that unless one received formal membership in the Catholic Church through the reception of the Sacrament of Baptism, that there was no possibility that one could be saved. All aborted infants; all infants that died through miscarriage; every toddler that died without receiving the Sacrament of Baptism – no possibility of heaven for them. Those who died that had never heard the Gospel preached to them through no fault of their own – all condemned to eternity in Hell according to Fr. Feeney. This harsh teaching by Fr. Feeney caused, as one can well imagine, a lot of controversy at the time that Fr. Feeey was promulgating these opinions through the periodical From the Housetops.
The controversy caused by Fr. Feeney was serious enough that Pope Pius XII approved the The Letter From the Holy Office that rebuked Fr. Feeney’s misunderstanding of EENS doctrine. I believe that if one wants a clear understanding of what the Magisterium of the Catholic Church actually teaches about EENS, that one should read this letter, since it is dedicated to correcting some common misconceptions that Catholics of that era had about the doctrine of extra Ecclesiam nulla salus.
I think that it is fair to say that there is a development in the EENS doctrine coming to a fruition in the Letter from the Holy Office. That development of doctrine had to do with the deeper understanding of the baptism of desire – that is, that there is both the baptism of explicit desire and the baptism ofimplicit desire.
From the earliest times, the church taught clearly about the baptism of explicit desire, that is, salvation was possible for catechumens that explicitly desired to receive the Sacrament of Baptism, but who died before reception of that Sacrament. Tom Brown’s quote by St. Augustine is one example. Other examples can be found here:
THE BAPTISM OF DESIRE, Some Examples From Church Teaching, Scripture, the Saints and the Magisterium
In regards to the baptism of implicit desire, the Letter from the Holy Office specifically takes up that issue with these words:
… In His infinite mercy God has willed that the effects, necessary for one to be saved, of those helps to salvation which are directed toward man’s final end, not by intrinsic necessity, but only by divine institution, can also be obtained in certain circumstances when those helps are used only in desire and longing. This we see clearly stated in the Sacred Council of Trent, both in reference to the sacrament of regeneration and in reference to the sacrament of penance (Denzinger, nn. 797, 807).
The same in its own degree must be asserted of the Church, in as far as she is the general help to salvation. Therefore, that one may obtain eternal salvation, it is not always required that he be incorporated into the Church actually as a member, but it is necessary that at least he be united to her by desire and longing.
However, this desire need not always be explicit, as it is in catechumens; but when a person is involved in invincible ignorance God accepts also an implicit desire, so called because it is included in that good disposition of soul whereby a person wishes his will to be conformed to the will of God.
The Letter from the Holy Office references Pope Pius IX’s encyclical letter, Quanto conficiamur moerore, which Tom Brown quotes in the body of his article. Pope Pius IX is the pope of Vatican I – he can hardly be accused of having “modernist” leanings!
From Tom Brown’s article: What VanDrunen dismisses is the possibility that the invincibly ignorant can in some circumstances, and only by God’s grace, beextraordinarily incorporated into the Catholic Church.
When VanDrunen dismisses this possibility, he is making the same mistake as Father Feeney. The Catholic Church teaches what the scriptures teach, namely that God desires that all men be saved. The ordinary means of salvation for men are the means that Christ established and made known to men. Christ has revealed to men that through the church that He founded that men can receive saving grace by partaking worthily of the Sacraments of His church.
Catechism of the Catholic Church
1257 The Lord himself affirms that Baptism is necessary for salvation. He also commands his disciples to proclaim the Gospel to all nations and to baptize them. Baptism is necessary for salvation for those to whom the Gospel has been proclaimed and who have had the possibility of asking for this sacrament The Church does not know of any means other than Baptism that assures entry into eternal beatitude; this is why she takes care not to neglect the mission she has received from the Lord to see that all who can be baptized are “reborn of water and the Spirit.” God has bound salvation to the sacrament of Baptism, but he himself is not bound by his sacraments.
It is because God is not bound by his own sacraments that the Catholic Church teaches that saving grace can be offered to the invincibly ignorant in an extraordinary manner. How, exactly, God does that is of no real concern to faithful Catholics – we only need to fulfill the mission on earth that God has given to us – the mission to preach the Gospel to the ends of the earth and to make available the ordinary means of salvation to all men.
Bryan Cross writes: The statement in the Catechism “Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it” (CCC 846) is exactly the essence of what the Council of Florence taught.
I agree with Bryan, and note that CCC 846 is a direct quote from the Vatican II document Lumen Gentium (See LG 14). The last sentence of Lumen Gentium 14 is:
… Catechumens who, moved by the Holy Spirit, seek with explicit intention to be incorporated into the Church are by that very intention joined with her. With love and solicitude Mother Church already embraces them as her own.
Not only does the body of Lumen Gentium 14 affirm the pericope from the Council of Florence quoted by VanDrunen, Lumen Gentium 14 also affirms the Catholic Church’s understanding concerning the doctrine of the baptism of explicit desire in the case of catechumens.
The doctrine of the baptism of implicit desire was not addressed at the Council of Florence, but it was addressed at Vatican II. The doctrine of the baptism of implicit desire is affirmed in Lumen Gentium a couple of paragraphs after LG 14 in LG 16:
… Those also can attain to salvation who through no fault of their own do not know the Gospel of Christ or His Church, yet sincerely seek God and moved by grace strive by their deeds to do His will as it is known to them through the dictates of conscience.(19*) Nor does Divine Providence deny the helps necessary for salvation to those who, without blame on their part, have not yet arrived at an explicit knowledge of God and with His grace strive to live a good life.
… to promote the glory of God and procure the salvation of all of these, and mindful of the command of the Lord, “Preach the Gospel to every creature”, the Church fosters the missions with care and attention.
SUPPLEMENTARY NOTES (*)
19) Cfr. Epist. S.S.C.S. Officii ad Archiep. Boston: Denz. 3869-72.
I think it is important to note that the Fathers of Vatican II included as a supplementary note to LG 16, footnote (19*), which is a reference to “Cfr. Epist. S.S.C.S. Officii ad Archiep. Boston .: Denz. 3869-72” or the “Letter of the Holy Office to the Archbishop of Boston: Denzinger 3869-72.” This the Letter from the Holy Office that I quoted above that corrected Fr. Leonard Feeney and his mistaken opinions concerning EENS doctrine.
The Fathers of Vatican II were well aware of the controversy between Fr. Feeney and Pope Pius XII surrounding the correct understanding of EENS.
Can the doctrine of the baptism of implicit desire be considered to be a development of doctrine of thebaptism of desire? I think so. It is a legitimate development of doctrine because in does not contradict what the Catholic Church has always taught about the baptism of explicit desire.
… dogma must be understood in that sense in which the Church herself understands it. For, it was not to private judgments that Our Savior gave for explanation those things that are contained in the deposit of faith, but to the teaching authority of the Church.
“Letter of the Holy Office to the Archbishop of Boston: Denzinger 3869-72.