"Our earthly liturgies must be celebrations full of beauty and power: Feasts of the Father who created us—that is why the gifts of the earth play such a great part: the bread, the wine, oil and light, incense, sacred music, and splendid colors. Feasts of the Son who redeemed us—that is why we rejoice in our liberation, breathe deeply in listening to the Word, and are strengthened in eating the Eucharistic Gifts. Feasts of the Holy Spirit who lives in us—that is why there is a wealth of consolation, knowledge, courage, strength, and blessing that flows from these sacred assemblies." unknown source possibly YOUCAT Mal.1.11 For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name shall be great among the Gentiles; and in every place incense shall be offered unto my name, and a pure offering: for my name shall be great among the heathen, saith theLord of hosts.

Tuesday, May 6, 2014

ordination/ Holy Orders

from  208 here http://www.calledtocommunion.com/2014/03/the-quest-for-the-historical-church-a-protestant-assessment/

What is required for valid ordination are the proper a) Minister b) Matter , c) Form and d) Intention and e) Subject.. Matter is the laying on of hands and form is a theologically acceptable accompanying prayer of consecration. The Subject is the person being ordained. Minister and Intention are the biggies here. Intention must be to confer a sacrament. If there is not intention to administer a sacrament (in the Catholic sense) and impart sacramental grace then the ordination can not be valid. Intention is somewhat related to the form of the consecration. The words of the consecration should express and must not contradict the sacramental nature of the Holy Orders themselves, as well as the sacramental function of the ordained ministry particularly in offering the Eucharist. I assume mostpresbyterian do not believe ordination is sacramental? So, no I am not going to recognize Presbyterian Holy Orders just on those grounds. Proper minister means a man ordained with full Holy Orders to the Episcopacy, a validly ordained Bishop by chain of succession going back to the Apostles. Presbyterian do not claim to have a chain of ordination from the Apostles so on those grounds their ordinations are not valid.

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from the CCC

1538 Integration into one of these bodies in the Church was accomplished by a rite called ordinatio, a religious and liturgical act which was a consecration, a blessing or a sacrament. Today the word "ordination" is reserved for the sacramental act which integrates a man into the order of bishops, presbyters, or deacons, and goes beyond a simpleelection, designation, delegation, or institution by the community, for it confers a gift of the Holy Spirit that permits the exercise of a "sacred power" (sacra potestas)5 which can come only from Christ himself through his Church. Ordination is also called consecratio, for it is a setting apart and an investiture by Christ himself for his Church. The laying on of hands by the bishop, with the consecratory prayer, constitutes the visible sign of this ordination

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