"Our earthly liturgies must be celebrations full of beauty and power: Feasts of the Father who created us—that is why the gifts of the earth play such a great part: the bread, the wine, oil and light, incense, sacred music, and splendid colors. Feasts of the Son who redeemed us—that is why we rejoice in our liberation, breathe deeply in listening to the Word, and are strengthened in eating the Eucharistic Gifts. Feasts of the Holy Spirit who lives in us—that is why there is a wealth of consolation, knowledge, courage, strength, and blessing that flows from these sacred assemblies." unknown source possibly YOUCAT Mal.1.11 For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name shall be great among the Gentiles; and in every place incense shall be offered unto my name, and a pure offering: for my name shall be great among the heathen, saith theLord of hosts.

Sunday, May 26, 2013

romans 9

from comment 69 here: http://www.calledtocommunion.com/2011/04/thought-experiment-for-monergists/

There are several terms in the mix. Salvation. Election. Justification. Sanctification. Eternal life. We don’t have to completely agree right away on how these are all related, but I at least want to clarify how I understand some of this.
That bit in Romans 9 is addressing *election* in particular, not every aspect of salvation. You write that “God chooses us and then we have eternal life.” But that is not the whole story. Salvation also includes things like justification and sanctification, and the obedience of faith.
In particular, as we have seen (Romans 6 and Galatians 6), sanctification is a condition for receiving eternal life. Even if one maintains that justification and sanctification are seperate gifts, one still has to account for the biblical data concerning the telos of sanctification / good works, and that data indicates that these are not only evidence of salvation (i.e. justification and eternal life), nor only expressions of gratitude for these other gifts, but stand in a cause-effect relation to the gifts of eternal life and justification.”He who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life.”
Part of the disconnect in the conversation might be due to different ways of thinking about salvation. When you use the word, you seem to refer to a once-for-all event, either a timeless decree of individual election, or a moment of faith, or both. Thus, receiving eternal life, being justified, can only refer to a past event in a Christian’s life. I am referring to salvation as a process. Salvation has a past, a present, and a future. We can see, for example, that Paul refers to both “eternal life” and “justification” as rewards to be received in the future, as the culmination of sanctification, as well as conditions that obtain in the present, for those who are united to Christ by living faith.
We seem to have agreed that sanctification involves the will of man, cooperating with divine grace. But since Sacred Scripture also teaches that sanctification is an integral aspect of salvation upon which future salvific gifts are conditioned, it is incorrect to say that salvation is not somehow dependent on man. I know that it sounds strange to Reformed ears, but synergism in salvation seems to be the biblical perspective. This is fully compatible with Romans 9:14-18, since the antecedent of “it” in that passage is not “the whole of salvation” but God’s election of Jacob / Israel.

and comment 82:

Romans 9 is covenantal. It is not a discussion on the mechanics of individual salvation but about nations and God’s sovereign activity in regard to the gospel. Look at Malachi 1 which Romans 9 cites, Jacob and Esau are nations. God turns his own command in Deut. 21:15-17 on its head with Jacob and Esau, and Paul is answering the natural question “is there unrighteousnes with God?” because of this. These chapters in Romans are adressing Israel’s fall and the acceptance of the gentiles not individual election to heaven or hell.

see also;  http://www.reasonablefaith.org/molinism-and-divine-election

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